When Blue is Purple

[fantasyprints]

Hi All

This is probably a very common question but in 15 yrs of using various Fierys I have never found an answer.

More and more people are bring in files to print which they have tested on their on inkjets and expect similar results which we all know is a problem but this is becoming more of a problem with digital camera owners.

We have one case at moment which is a photo of a boat coming into a harbour which was taken by a professional. Looks natural on screen - normal colours e.g. sky is blue but when printed to DC260 (we have two) using Splash or to an DC5252 with Fiery EX2000 we get a purple sky. When we print to a HP Designjet 9180 or Z2100 we get a blue sky. My own $79 Canon prints a blue screen. We have tried changing the settings in the colour setup but with no real changes.

We calibrate all the machines daily and most items print good and within customer requirements but it seems we hit one of these jobs every few days. I wonder if any others out there experience this and what they do to work around.

We use PCs and MACS. Most files are printed either by Photoshop or Indesign. The Inkjet machines prefer files sent as RGB from photoshop and the RIP (Onyx) prints to the Designjets. The Fierys/Splash are set to sRGB and have tried convert to CMYK profile and tried bypassing.

One thing I haven't done yet is to replace the Output Profile with one I could create with Gretag Eyeone but with the cost of the Splash RIP I would of thought the internal calibration system would not require this to be done.

ANy help would be handy.

Paul

[k_graham]

Windows / Fiery

1)I am assuming a jpg photo and using a program like Microsoft photo and fax viewer to print out which means you won't be introducing additional baggage from Photoshop, assuming we have good results with the photo and fax viewer we can then look at a profile for photoshop.

2)Please confirm you have set in your printer driver that it is using calibration in printer and not host.
2a) also please confirm when doing Fiery Calibration it will allow a calibration on Card. If not ask Xerox for replacement disks.
(please use low brightness papers in the 90 brightness area not 100 area with UV whiteners, you can print on the brighter papers after but please don't calibrate on them for this experiment, better to use 5.00/1000 bond)


3)Can you try 2 additonal things for me in addition to above where you are using SRGB

4)Try EFIRGB

5)Try NONE

What were your results?

[fantasyprints]

Hi Ken

1)I am assuming a jpg photo and using a program like Microsoft photo and fax viewer to print out which means you won't be introducing additional baggage from Photoshop, assuming we have good results with the photo and fax viewer we can then look at a profile for photoshop.

Actually printing from PHotoshop from PCs and Macs

2)Please confirm you have set in your printer driver that it is using calibration in printer and not host.

Colour options switched off on Photoshop so RIP is colour managing.

Sending file as RGB like customer does to their printers. Inkjet printers print very close to customers prints - which is what they are looking for - lasers print purple.

2a) also please confirm when doing Fiery Calibration it will allow a calibration on Card.

Yes calibrated both paper and card.


I will try the below tomorrow

3)Can you try 2 additonal things for me in addition to above where you are using SRGB

4)Try EFIRGB


The only thing I haven't done yet is create a colour profile using someing like IOne Match and select that as output profile in the RIP setting. I was thinking pay £40K for a RIP+Copier this wouldn't be required but with £79 printers able to print very good its hard to say to the customer that our expensive equipment is correct and theres isn't when ours looks wrong and theirs looks right


Paul

5)Try NONE

What were your results?

[k_graham]

Originally Posted by fantasyprints

Hi Ken

1)I am assuming a jpg photo and using a program like Microsoft photo and fax viewer to print out which means you won't be introducing additional baggage from Photoshop, assuming we have good results with the photo and fax viewer we can then look at a profile for photoshop.

Actually printing from PHotoshop from PCs and Macs


What were your results?

If the photo can be opened with Microsoft photo and fax viewer could you also try printing from there - I just want to confirm it is nothing to do with Photoshop.

Also in Fiery printer driver window if you can use relative colorimetric & perhaps also try perceptual. The following link I think explains the problem you are having. If we can first fix it outside of photoshop where we know we are dealing with RGB then we should be able to get the results in Photoshop.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...conversion.htm

[fantasyprints]

Hi Ken

Tried what you said and found FieryRGB selected and press simulation switch off solved the Purple sky. Funny for last few years I have changed the Fiery RGB to sRGB thinking it was a better option never thought that this would actually cause a problem

Paul

[k_graham]

Originally Posted by fantasyprints

Hi Ken

Tried what you said and found FieryRGB selected and press simulation switch off solved the Purple sky. Funny for last few years I have changed the Fiery RGB to sRGB thinking it was a better option never thought that this would actually cause a problem

Paul

I'm glad it resolved, I am guessing a bit here that EFIRGB is a larger color space more in line with the capabilities of the output device - I guess that might mean EFIRGB2 would be even more in line with later toners but to me EFIRGB2 is too saturated.

Did you try NONE as well, just curious of your results with it as my understanding was its supposed to pass through the system setting.

Ken Graham

[fantasyprints]

Hi Ken

There actually wasn't away not to select one of the options (e.g. use NONE) but I will have another look

Paul

[k_graham]

Originally Posted by fantasyprints

Hi Ken

There actually wasn't away not to select one of the options (e.g. use NONE) but I will have another look

Paul

You may be right as it wasn't on older RIP's like my XP Rip on Docucolor 12 but was added on newer units like my Docucolor 240 with EXP250.

Your success is in line with how I've got mine http://fieryforums.efi.com/showthread.php?t=1037 (see last comment there)

Except from Europe I would expect you to be using ISO or Euroscale in place of SWOP.

[fantasyprints]

Hi Ken

I found simply clicking the tick box opposite the RGB setting in Colour Settings allowed me to print with no RGB changes and colour came out again correct.

Now I'm confused should I just leave this switch off?

Paul

[k_graham]

Originally Posted by fantasyprints

Hi Ken

I found simply clicking the tick box opposite the RGB setting in Colour Settings allowed me to print with no RGB changes and colour came out again correct.

Now I'm confused should I just leave this switch off?

Paul

Are you talking in the print driver as I see no reference to what you are referring to. Under Fiery Printing, colorwise, advanced print.

Are you using Docucolor 5252 version 2 or 3, you might also want to download the latest print driver from Xerox - I think they've changed some settings from original release.

On the current download, expert color settings, under RGB source profile where you selected efirgb if you scroll all the way to bottom of list you get to none. My understanding is you might try that if you are setting profile in Adobe.

Rendering style - Relative Colorimetric

RGB separation - output