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Thread: V180 first calibration newbie question

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  1. #1
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    Default V180 first calibration newbie question

    Hi all and thank you in advance for those who will give me some piece of advice

    My name is Stefano and I just started using a V180 printer with Fiery Full Package (Color Profiler Suite, Spectrophotometer, ecc. ecc.). I'm really a newbie so I hope my questions won't be kind of stupid.

    From what I got I'd better profile my paper stock (output) and then calibrate the printer to make sure the result is consistent in time with the profile. Till here everything sharp and clear

    I'm just wondering if there is some sort of pre-calibration or pre-check I'd better make before profiling the paper stock, in order to make sure the press starts working in perfect condition.

    Thanks

    Stefano

  2. #2
    Doyle is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor Doyle is on a distinguished path
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    Two things you want to do first. Dial in your Secondary Voltage Transfer first. I like to print 100% of Cyan and Magenta together. You can do this in the Clean Toner Dialog choosing print, or make a file with 2 pages with C&M combined then print with no Color Management. That way you can check both side 1 and side 2. Then second do your uniform density making sure it is good. Then you should be good to go with calibration and profiling.

    Did Xerox not send an analyst to show you how to do this?

  3. #3
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    Thank you very much, all clear!

    Actually I am a Xerox Partner and bought the press in order to learn how to use it before trying to sell it I am starting from scratch

  4. #4
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    Hi all, I did it and most importantly understood what I did. I just have another quick question:

    Basically I created a output profile for my paper stock (i.e. Symbol Glossy SRA3 350gsm) with CPS and imported it to CW6. I also assigned the output profile to the paper stock in paper catalog.

    At this point I noticed that to calibrate, I have to assign a calibration set for that profile. Hence, I created a new calibration set, but after doing it I noticed that CW6 saved this calibration set in the in the output profiles list...

    I don't get wether calibration sets are saved as output profiles or I created by accident another output profile as a outcome of the newly created calibration set.

    Thank you in advance for your time

  5. #5
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    Default Calibrate, then Profile

    Calibration sets cannot be saved as output profiles: these are 2 different things. Yes, you did create another output profile when you created a new calibration set.

    Here is how it works:

    • When you want the best possible output quality for a paper, you first create a calibration set. This process provides measurements that tells the Fiery how colorants (C, M, Y, K) independently behave on this paper. Fiery Calibrator calculates a “target” for each colorant, i.e. a response that each re-calibration will attempt to reproduce.
    • Recalibrating is faster than profiling. It can be done daily. Less measurements are needed than for profiling, because the objective of calibration is mostly limited to produce a well-controlled, repeatable color space. A calibrated printer is expected to produce the same color day after day. Calibration does not know the exact color produced by the printer. It just knows how to control ink amounts to match a calibration target.
    • A profile tells your Fiery the exact colors the printer can produce by mixing different amounts of colorants. A profile is valid as long as the printer’s color response has not changed since the profile was created. You can therefore reuse your profile as long as the calibrated state in use when the profile was created is still available.

    Creating a new calibration set results in a new reproducible color space. After creating a new calibration, you should therefore create an output profile to let the Fiery know details about this new color space. Calibration and profile work together. It is convenient to give the same name to both the calibration and the profile, but they really are different beasts.

    If both work together, why are they separate? Part of a longer answer is that EFI does not force its customers to use Fiery Color Profiler Suite to create profiles. If you import a profile created by a third-party software, you need to tell the Fiery for which calibrated state this profile is valid, by associating the profile with a calibration. This association is automatic with CPS. It is only one among many reasons why CPS is the most recommended profiling package for Fiery owners.

    For any job, you cannot directly specify a calibration set. You must specify an output profile. The calibration set associated with this output profile will automatically be used. This is why, when you create a calibration, but do not formally create an optimized profile by immediately printing calibrated patches and measuring them, a “placeholder” output profile by the same name as the calibration is created. This profile can be used to print calibrated profiling patches later, with CPS or with a third-party profiling software.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_M View Post
    Calibration sets cannot be saved as output profiles: these are 2 different things. Yes, you did create another output profile when you created a new calibration set.

    Here is how it works:

    • When you want the best possible output quality for a paper, you first create a calibration set. This process provides measurements that tells the Fiery how colorants (C, M, Y, K) independently behave on this paper. Fiery Calibrator calculates a “target” for each colorant, i.e. a response that each re-calibration will attempt to reproduce.
    • Recalibrating is faster than profiling. It can be done daily. Less measurements are needed than for profiling, because the objective of calibration is mostly limited to produce a well-controlled, repeatable color space. A calibrated printer is expected to produce the same color day after day. Calibration does not know the exact color produced by the printer. It just knows how to control ink amounts to match a calibration target.
    • A profile tells your Fiery the exact colors the printer can produce by mixing different amounts of colorants. A profile is valid as long as the printer’s color response has not changed since the profile was created. You can therefore reuse your profile as long as the calibrated state in use when the profile was created is still available.

    Creating a new calibration set results in a new reproducible color space. After creating a new calibration, you should therefore create an output profile to let the Fiery know details about this new color space. Calibration and profile work together. It is convenient to give the same name to both the calibration and the profile, but they really are different beasts.

    If both work together, why are they separate? Part of a longer answer is that EFI does not force its customers to use Fiery Color Profiler Suite to create profiles. If you import a profile created by a third-party software, you need to tell the Fiery for which calibrated state this profile is valid, by associating the profile with a calibration. This association is automatic with CPS. It is only one among many reasons why CPS is the most recommended profiling package for Fiery owners.

    For any job, you cannot directly specify a calibration set. You must specify an output profile. The calibration set associated with this output profile will automatically be used. This is why, when you create a calibration, but do not formally create an optimized profile by immediately printing calibrated patches and measuring them, a “placeholder” output profile by the same name as the calibration is created. This profile can be used to print calibrated profiling patches later, with CPS or with a third-party profiling software.
    Awesome!!! Thank you for the super clear reply

  7. #7
    Doyle is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor Doyle is on a distinguished path
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    Paul this is great information and really needed to set everyone straight on the proper procedure.

    What I have often wonder and just have not gotten around to experimenting with is. If I create a G7 calibration, then profile, then is there a way to copy/duplicate that calibration for use with CWS using another instrument especially like the FWA or the ILS? The reason I am asking is that I would like to retain the G7 calibration but recalibrate withe the FWA or ILS for operator simplicity and then create a new profile on top of that recalibration. I realize I could do this with the original calibration but I would have no real way to compare the two outputs and with a new profile or not. Short of duplicating I guess I could just make two calibration sets at the same time using the same target calibration target but don't think I could use the same G7 targets.

  8. #8
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    If you haven't gotten a chance to do the Versant training yet, "Rautmann, Nancy" <Nancy.Rautmann@xerox.com> at Xerox would be able to help you set up what you need to learn for this series and the fiery items that go along with this machine. (She helps set up and run the Analyst trainings at Xerox.)

    Additionally - I feel it is best practice to run the gradation adjustment on the machine prior to calibration. (Get your machine at optimum output before you adjust the software.)

  9. #9
    DragonLeaves is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor DragonLeaves is on a distinguished path
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    Default the pyramid..

    When I setup stocks for a machine, I follow these simple rules to ensure great results.


    -1- ENSURE your drums are in good shape! For profiling at least 80% on each. in color quality the base of the pyramid is the quality of your hardware.

    0- Create a Custom Paper Settings for everything (I'll explain why later).

    1- On anything above 210gsm, run the image transfer adjustment. Note: I only saw the density uniformity tool used once on a bad stock.. Unless your drums are almost dead and your belt is equally almost dead, and even then, maybe only on 350gsm, you shouldn't need the density uniformity tool. I saw it used once on a V80, and once on a 3100, on all my customers. However, again, the image transfer tool is required for anything about even 100lb text for best results.

    2- As I said, run the image transfer to ensure that the stock has the best results on solids. If your humidity/temperature seriously goes out of whack later, run it again if you see a change. It'll help. When humidity goes close to zero, that image transfer tool will help.

    3- Create your alignment for the stock 'Tray 6 12x18 Silk 300' and stick to a certain nomenclature of your choice to make them easy to read as your create more over time. Tray 6 and 7 are pretty much interchangeable for alignments so are 1-2-3. They stick, also, FAR longer than any previous machine and they take 2 minutes to makes. Simplest process in the industry.

    4- Run at least 25 sheets before calibration, given your drums and everything else is in good shape. You can't calibrate a cold machine it won't give you optimal results. (this may actually be deprecated but its an old habit I'd have to run a fogra strip across first and 25th sheet to ensure this... I'll do that eventually but for now, its an old recommendation to run a few sheets first. Best time? Middle of a shift.

    5- If you have iProfiler (ideal) or CPS (good with the G7) then only use the defaults 90gsm plain /120gsm coated to segregate your stocks based on coating. The profile will take care of everything else. There is no perceivable difference these days if you create a custom calibration set or not for each stock. I sampled delta e and saw under 1 so no visible difference. Its insanity to do it the EFI way with a calibration sets per stock you end up calibrating all the time. I'd only do a custom calset if the white point or texture was vastly different.

    6- At that point run your targets and profile your stocks. Then import them and assign them to the paper catalog in Fiery so you don't need to always specify which profile for each stock. Usually on a Versant a profile for uncoated and a couple for gloss will get you through GRACoL compliance for everything. You don't need to go nuts with a profile per stock. You don't need 4000 or 6000 patches either. The 1617 or so standard works just as well. This isn't a linear relationship between number of patches and quality. It tops off around 1500.

    7- If you don't have a profiling software nor a spectrophotometer than try to use, over time, the same stocks when you calibrate and calibrate each of those five. If you are using plain paper, put about five sheets over your target when placing it on the glass.

    8- The rare times you need a custom calibration sets are usually when your stock has a very different white point or a vastly different texture that's messing up the Fiery. If you do create one, call it 'Custom CalSet xyz' so that in the list you'll remember this ain't a profile. Its a calibration set.


    Now a bit of background.

    When you calibrate, you are essentially ensuring that at 0%, it ain't dripping. Just like a plumber. You're ensuring that at 0,10,20,30% etc each of those primary colorants outputs the optimal quantity of toner. How do you know what's optimal quantity you ask? Well, you are basing your results off a certain stock, i.e., the Xerox 24lbs plain for example. So they tweak those densities based on a certain stock. How well it looks on a given stock is taken into account. The paper is the N'th colour in any printing system... (TM by me! lol) That's why you have five calibration sets that covers most stocks. Those calibration sets are then tied to profiles. These ICC profiles, be them for a TV or a paper, are basically just a huge lookup table... for that LAB color, do this in CMYK, and so on. Its a two column spreadsheet which, from all those 1500 little squares of different color it scanned, tells the machine how to print colours accurately on this or that paper. Its like a pair of glasses for the machine and a certain paper. The profile also takes into account the white point of the paper. You see, depending if your paper has too much optical brighteners (ie its blueish) or its yellowish, that paper white point is essentially the N'th color in any printing system. It matters. So you can bet that any paper that has a white point close to the reference point of your default calibration set/profile combo will work well given a similar surface. If you never callibrate the 300gsm gloss and you are printing on that then you'll usually find you have a magenta cast btw. Having someone like me do the profile and colour training is usually worth it if you want stellar quality that is repeatable. People that calibrate sporadically on changing papers ensure that they have no consistency over time: the customer comes back a year later and they can't match the proof: they don't remember which particular paper they calibrated on back them and when etc. Try to ensure you stick to your house brands for calibration. Other thing: you don't need to calibrate all the time. Those days are gone. Look, when do you wax your car? Well, you look at your car, and decide right? Same with your printer. Get yourself a quality control document that exposes primary gradients, flesh tones, spot colors etc. and print that once the machine is pristine and calibrated/profiled. Keep it! Then print it again and compare that output before a colour critical job and you'll know if you need to calibrate. Remember, you need to calibrate the calibration sets that is the closest to the stock you'll print on. If you are doing glossy business cards then that's Gloss 300gsm. If you are doing a Cougar 350 then that's either Uncoated 90 (or a custom calset since that stock is hard). A custom ICC profile (not a custom calset) will give you far better definition in highlights and shadows, give you a crisper look and better more accurate color and details. If you reread this post a couple of time and stick to the recommendation you'll find having consistent color is easy.

    9 - Use the Paper Catalog in Fiery to assign those profiles! I know I've said this but doing this will save you lots of problems and its far easier to set up job with the Custom Paper Settings integration into the Paper Catalog since you only need to have one dropdown: the paper catalog dropdown.

    Okay, my fingers are numb feel free to ask me anything else cheers!

  10. #10
    Doyle is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor Doyle is on a distinguished path
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    I disagree with your assessment of the need for running the Density Uniformity Tool. To access the quality of you drums you need to run the Spot/Streak Diagnostic tool. After running that you will be able to tell if you have uniform density from inboard to outboard. If you see that the colors are not uniform than you need to run the Density Uniformity Tool.

    In practice as drums age they do not often stay uniform from inboard to outboard. You need to correct that as needed. When drums are replaced you surly do not want the old uniform density setting to be applied to the new drum. In that case always run the Density Uniformity Tool when drums are replaced. Also I find it a good practice to Restore Factory Default Setting because I have seen bad results from running the Density Uniformity Tool on top of old uniform density setting from old drums when replacing them with new drums.

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