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Thread: Imposition and color settings not being honored

  1. #1
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Default Imposition and color settings not being honored

    KM IC-315 with all patches except the most recent FS-612 large sheet patch. The file is an RGB PDF; it's a photo. I import it into CWS6 directly, and set a media for which there is a custom calibration set.

    One up, it looks fine; imposed, it looks too red. Very different, at any rate. So I took a closer look.

    Process and hold the 1-up files, and look at it in ImageViewer, and in a specific area (forehead) the CMY hang around 8/35/45.

    Take this same file, remove raster, and impose it gang up repeat, and save as .dbp file. Make no other changes. Process and hold it, and that same forehead area shows CMY values around 45/65/55. Visually, it's WAY too red.

    Remove raster, open it in Impose, and save it as a flattened PDF and re-process it. The forehead area shows CMY at the same values as the 1-up file--8/35/45. (These are the desired values.)

    On further investigation, I discovered the anomalous behavior: it centers around the output profile setting. By default, when I import the file and then set the media that has its own custom profile/calibration set, I leave the "output profile" item in the job ticket to "use job defined settings". That shows, to the right of it, the custom calibration set that the job defined settings will use. All is well.

    When I process the 1-up and the flattened imposed file, they use that custom cal set and give the same color. But when I process the .dbp file, even though that custom cal set is defined, it's not using that. I discovered that it's using the factory coated profile instead.

    If I set the "output profile" setting specifically to the custom cal set that I want and re-process the .dbp file, I get the desired results. If I set it specifically to the factory coated profile and re-process the .dbp, I get exactly the bad results. That's how I figured out what it's actually doing when I leave the setting at "use job defined settings". It's choosing to process using the factory coated profile instead.

    So I have at least one .dbp file that is not honoring the media-defined output profile. Actually, I have two files. I validated this problem by going to my Macintosh and re-importing the file from scratch there via CWS6 and going through the same steps. The second file gave the exact same results.

  2. #2
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    I can confirm this. Guess it's related to my observations regarding postflight. You could also try to extend your tests to APPE/CPSI.

    To me it looks like as soon as the Fiery needs to "combine" things while ripping, the custom media profiles won't be applied. If you flatten it, like you did, it works again.

    To be honest, I don't think this can be easily fixed on client side. Looks like a server issue :-(
    ... and a really annoying one because often, you won't the difference as clear as you did. I already threw away dozens of failed prints which looked well in 1-up but somehow "distorted" in gang-up layout, especially if two or more different paper types / calibrations are used within the same job.
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

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    Does PDF contain transparencies?
    Please try "Optimize RGB transparencies" in JP.
    If it doesn't help then we will need source file to analyze.
    Thanks.

  4. #4
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    I don't see a relationship to RGB transparencies here because the result is only affected by using Impose (as adam said) or by using postflight, which might also involve the same underlying techniques to combine the control bar and the underlying source without flattening anything.

    It's just an idea but could it be the cause that there Fiery just merges two jobs into one job set and simply misses to sync the properties?
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

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    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajeevsi View Post
    Does PDF contain transparencies?
    Please try "Optimize RGB transparencies" in JP.
    If it doesn't help then we will need source file to analyze.
    Thanks.
    No. This is an RGB JPEG, straight from a phone.

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    Default I think this could be Windows

    I noticed colour shifting a while back when using impose and it turned out Windows 10 was affecting Impose's colour management so everything was getting double mapped. (my best guess) Going into windows control panel and turning off the colour management options fixed this problem for me.

  7. #7
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    If you file-print, that may be the case.

    But I dropped the PDF directly into the Fiery. The ONLY entity that touched it, ever, was the Fiery.

    Process it one-up: good results. Process it N-up: bad results.

    At no point does Windows touch that file. If Windows color management is influencing Impose, then something is seriously broken.

    But that's not the case here. It's the Fiery ignoring the job ticket with regard to custom output profile, and choosing to use the factory profile instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
    No. This is an RGB JPEG, straight from a phone.
    Hi adam1991, can you private message me and share the job archive which would reproduce this issue?

    Thanks
    Mark

  9. #9
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    Hi adam1991,

    Thank you for sending the test file and additional details. It appears there is an issue with the APPE processing of this file. The file will process correctly using CPSI. I would suggest you open a case with your reseller regarding the APPE path and in the meantime use the CPSI path for files that exhibit this condition.

    Best Regards,
    Mark

  10. #10
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    Well in my case, the bug always occurs, regardless of the source file. You can check this quite easily when ripping an imposed DBP-APPE job with control bars enabled. Therefore I would suggest to avoid APPE on every DBP job
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

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