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Thread: RE: Working with Custom Paper Profiles

  1. #1
    adause is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor adause is on a distinguished path
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    Default RE: Working with Custom Paper Profiles

    So just want to have a better understanding of what I'm seeing. I think I know the answer but not quite sure.

    So the other day I was given a job off our offset press that was having issues and was asked to print the second side and match the purple border as best I can to what the press was printing.

    So I had a profile that I built for this specific paper and used it to output a sheet to see where I was at. Well it looked great, just like the file however, the "purple" border was actually more of a blue, but due to issues with the press the M was hot.

    No problem I thought, I'll go to my Output Profiles, select the profile I built for this paper, tweek it (using curves) and print out another sheet. So this is were something happened that I wasn't expecting. It did affect the color as expected but then I noticed an object on the page was also affected that should not of been. The Purple I mentioned was 100% C & M, the object affected had only 25% C.

    The reason I was not expecting this was because I anchored the curve so it would only affect 90-100% of C, nothing else.

    So suddenly I got this cold chill as I started to think about things. When I built the profile I also included G7 into the profile. Is it possible that when these media profiles are built with this method through FCPS you are unable to adjust curves otherwise it can affect color in adverse or unexpected ways? Or should you be able, as I did, select it and play with curves if need be in CWS.

    I'm hoping someone will understand what I am talking about because now I am concerned about all my profiles I built including G7 that possibly I may need to make subtle adjusts on when situations such as mentioned above comes along.

    Thank guys appreciate it as always
    Last edited by adause; 10-07-2017 at 11:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Steve0 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor Steve0 is on a distinguished path
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    Bending output profile curves is a very last resort as it does have unintended consequences.

    But if all you were trying to adjust was the purple border, you would have been better off using Fiery's spot color adjustment feature. (Assuming the border was a vector object.) That wouldn't have touched anything else in the job (that wasn't that same color).

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    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Do you have Graphic Arts Package, Premium Edition?

    The features of that can give you information and controls you don't otherwise have, and in this case I'd love to see what ImageViewer says about that "25C" object of yours after it's been processed through your output file. I'd also like to compare it to the source.

    And yes, for color control like this you really want everything possible to be vector so that you can address the items individually.

    Curves are a last resort for what you're trying to do. That all being said, did you try editing the source profile? Is your source purple element RGB or CMYK?

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    Default RE: Working with Custom Paper Profiles

    Just to give a quick further comment about the original question (which should not discourage you from getting expert advice from the two others who responded):

    We do G7 in the Fiery calibration. When you edit the profile curves (which is a bad practice in general but you do have to get jobs out the door) these are put together with the calibration. Could the G7 curves make is so that when you adjust the 3/4 tones it effects the light areas too? I doubt it but I'd need to have your profile and calibration set (you can export it from Device Center and send it if you want us to look.

    Also be aware that when you edit the profile that uses G7-calibration you are adjusting the gray balance, but this is even true without G7 since an output profile gives you gray balanced output. You are not going to see this if you make change in the 3/4-tone to shadow as you did since there is so much K printing in cark neutrals that the gray balance doesn't matter.

    For solving the purple problem the other suggested approaches may be better since they won't effect any other colors.

    ~Lou

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    Default RE: Working with Custom Paper Profiles

    Just to give a quick further comment about the original question (which should not discourage you from getting expert advice from the two others who responded):

    We do G7 in the Fiery calibration. When you edit the profile curves (which is a bad practice in general but you do have to get jobs out the door) these are put together with the calibration. Could the G7 curves make is so that when you adjust the 3/4 tones it effects the light areas too? I doubt it but I'd need to have your profile and calibration set (you can export it from Device Center and send it if you want us to look.

    Also be aware that when you edit the profile that uses G7-calibration you are adjusting the gray balance, but this is even true without G7 since an output profile gives you gray balanced output. You are not going to see this if you make change in the 3/4-tone to shadow as you did since there is so much K printing in cark neutrals that the gray balance doesn't matter.

    For solving the purple problem the other suggested approaches may be better since they won't effect any other colors.

    ~Lou

  6. #6
    adause is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor adause is on a distinguished path
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    Okay so to address a couple questions/comments.

    I have the GA pkg with this RIP but not the premium so Adam not sure if what you were mentioning I could still achieve with the standard version. I just saw you had asked if I had the premium version.

    Also I have Image Visual Editor, however it only allows me to grab a few parts and they seem to be the rastor images not the vector.

    I am attaching the file so someone who wants to check it out is able to (if I can attach it that is). As far as adjusting curves to an output profile (usually the factory one) has not been a problem in the past or I should say never affected values I didn't intend for it to. As far as grey balance that most definately was affected if the grey object had the same % of a given color I was tweeking.

    Given I don't have the GA Premium pkg and Image Visual Editor would not pick up the vector parts of the image (actually I believe the purple background is a fill, not sure if that would be considered vector or not), what would of been the proper way to handle this situation? Tweek the source file until I achieved what I was trying to get to?

    Also still not sure why the part that reads "Always Promoting..." was being affected if I had all values that it consist of anchored? It should not of been affected and that is were I am confused and was wondering if it had something to do with the profile built that included the G7 measurements as well.

    Thanks again I will try to attach this file if not PM me if you need to get your hands on it.

    Yeah it won't let me. As said if your curious just PM me and I'll send it.
    Last edited by adause; 10-15-2017 at 09:21 AM.

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    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Yeah, I'm curious as to how the file's built.

    Image Enhance Visual Editor is not the same thing as Imageviewer. Without the Graphic Arts Package Premium Edition, you don't have any way of seeing what the RIP did to create a raster file for output. And you don't have post-raster curve tools.

  8. #8
    adause is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor adause is on a distinguished path
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    Oh man it just hit me, I could of used substitute color for the purple adjustment. Meh.

  9. #9
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Yeah, I'm curious as to how the file's built.

    Image Enhance Visual Editor is not the same thing as Imageviewer. Without the Graphic Arts Package Premium Edition, you don't have any way of seeing what the RIP did to create a raster file for output. And you don't have post-raster curve tools.

  10. #10
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Quote Originally Posted by adause View Post
    Oh man it just hit me, I could of used substitute color for the purple adjustment. Meh.
    You could have, if the file was built properly.

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