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Thread: Best way to Manage ICC's For many paper stocks.

  1. #11
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    Thanks again,

    I've only been using fiery on an advanced level for 2 years now. But it's definitely great how the software works in layers / various user levels and you can "go deeper down the rabbit hole" as you go. Which is a good thing because each shop has a different set of demands and workflows (if any) which I'm still trying to find the best solution for.

    I do have a local "guru" I can speak with but he is often busy and where I've been jumping around with various ideas trying to figure out how I wanted to change my system, I figured the forum would give me the most view points and ideas.

    My Current plan is to create profiles for each stock type and similar white point. This should consolidate me down to about a dozen profiles verse 3-4 dozen. While I'm creating and setting everything up I'll use Verifier to make sure the stocks work properly (or properly enough). I've also set-up a spreadsheet to monitor and track the stocks.

    I've been thinking and I'm not sure why I need to create more than one calibration set for each profile?

    When I did my test yesterday I did get a warning when I calibrated, but my density graph looked fine and Verifier gave it good match to the profiled stock. But if I can't reach a density when I calibrate on an alternative stock, I'm thinking I could just modify the PaperCatalog on my Ricoh to boost the Image Density of the problem colour and let fiery drop it down. (I'm probably going to need to bug my "Guru" for that one.)

    Has anyone else tried this?

    Thanks

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Some comments first:
    You should not need to redo the ICC profiles that often unless the environment is varying significantly and the print engines are in non-consistent states. Regular calibration should be used in order to adjust for environmental factors.
    Regards DeviceLinks: DL's are designed to take you from a source profile (either RGB or CMYK) directly to an output profile, or through intermediary profiles in a more advanced usage. Be careful implementing these because your source files may contain other color spaces such as Device-n, L*a*b* CIE, grayscale etc so DL's can be misleading as they won't handle these color spaces directly. The Fiery uses a mechanism whereby you use a source profile and output profile combination to trigger your device link. This is done so that you have individual profiles available in order to handle and manage color spaces that will not be handled by the DL. If your shop uses color spaces other than pure RGB and/or pure CMYK DL's may not be the best choice. Remember that Spot Colors are Device-n1 so an output profile will need to be used to properly apply the Spot-On feature of the Fiery.

    And now for my advice:
    Use the Fiery Paper Catalog to assign profiles that apply to the stock. You may not need one profile per stock (as you have indicated), so create a single calibration set/profile for a group of similar media that has similar white points (L*100, a*+/-1~3, b*+/-1~3), coating (uncoated, silk, gloss) and surface characteristics. Then create PaperCatalog entries for every stock using order numbers and descriptions to facilitate selection, and assign the output profile to the stock. When submitting a job use the paper Catalog pull down in Job Properties (or driver if BiDi is setup) to select the stock. Depending on the print engine you can assign paper catalog entries to each tray. If the print engine has a supported SLM (stock library manager) this function is done using the tools the engine provides.
    Last edited by malcolmc; 07-27-2017 at 12:14 PM.

  3. #13
    DragonLeaves is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor DragonLeaves is on a distinguished path
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    Red face Look at the entire stack

    Variables affecting color are: toner age (you've been running 10K of black only for example), drums level, fuser age, temperature, humidity, machine dead cold or has been running, same machine or not?, calibration set used, paper surface texture, white point and gsm.

    Always profile when the machine has been running a while, has fresh drums and good hardware status overwall, ensure humidity is at least 30% and temperature in 20-35 celsius max.

    Variations over time will be seen based on your drums level mostly and humidity/temperature.

    You shouldn't need a lot of profiles and calibration sets. With Xerox Versants, one 24lbs plain and one 80lbs gloss text is usually enough for each type. Maybe add a custom calibration set/profile for a cougar 350 but that's about it.

  4. #14
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLeaves View Post
    You shouldn't need a lot of profiles and calibration sets. With Xerox Versants, one 24lbs plain and one 80lbs gloss text is usually enough for each type. Maybe add a custom calibration set/profile for a cougar 350 but that's about it.
    Disagree.

    At least, as a blanket statement.

    That may be fine for the work your shop puts out, but other shops need better. Fortunately, it's easy to provide better.

  5. #15
    DragonLeaves is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor DragonLeaves is on a distinguished path
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    Thumbs up Most shops

    To be fair,

    There's a tiny fraction of shops that actually profile anything. Of those, again a fraction actually profile lots of stocks. I know this from years of experience dealing with shops filled with production grade colour devices. On Xerox, the fact that you can tweak the transfer on a per stock basis, and that you don't have inboard/outboard gradients, or lack of consistency between 1st sheet and nth sheet, etc. all these explain partly, partly, why I didn't see a lot of the shops I deal with profile lots of stocks.

    That said, it makes those who profile that much easier to stand out !

    Quote Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
    Disagree.

    At least, as a blanket statement.

    That may be fine for the work your shop puts out, but other shops need better. Fortunately, it's easy to provide better.

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