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Thread: Paper Catalogue Duplicate Entries - Versant 80

  1. #1
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    Default Paper Catalogue Duplicate Entries - Versant 80

    We are finding duplicate or even triplicate paper entries being created randomly and automatically in the paper cataloge.


    This is creating problems when jobs won't print even though the correct paper is loaded - The job must be cancelled and then the other paper entry selected for it to reconise the loaded paper and print the job.


    We have tried to delete duplicate papers but this is only possible when there are no jobs in the queue using the paper.


    The more serious issue is that there is no indication which is the origional paper cataloge entry so when an entry is deleted it is in some cases the origional entry which is associated with the colour profile and hot files and that particular profile cannot be calibrated and the hot folders save the files with a paper cataloge error.


    Archived jobs also report paper cataloge errors when they are sent to print and must be associated to the new entry before they will print.


    There doesn't seem to be a way to assciocate the duplicated paper entry to the profile or hot folder.


    We have had to recreate the profiles and hot folders repeatedly which is very time consuming as the problem just seems to recur!


    Is there any way:
    1. I can prevent the duplicates or triplicate entries?
    2. Associate the new entries to the existing profiles and hot folders?
    3. Identify the origional paper entry so I only delete the new entries?


    Xerox have seen the problem and confirmed and escalated however they have not been able to provide any answers or support!

  2. #2
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Default

    Is this in the paper catalog program that runs on the Fiery hardware but which is separate from the Fiery itself?

  3. #3
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    The paper catalogue is on the Fiery CWS and we are able to allocate papers from the catalogue to jobs in CWS or in the print driver on clients.


    The Calibration, Hot Folders & Colour Profiler use these catalogued papers.


    The entries in the Fiery paper catalogue are created automatically when we add new papers on the V80.


    These then show up as a single locked default entry and then additional entries for each paper size and or colour as and when these are loaded on the V80.


    I am not sure technically whether this is on or seperate from the Fiery!


    99% of the time when the particular paper is realoaded on the V80 it is associated to the Paper Catalogue entry and it works perfectly.


    The problem as described is caused when a duplicate entry is automatically created by whatever system is generating these entries.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Attached some screen grabs showing:


    A. Paper Cataloge with Duplicate Entries.
    B. Paper Cataloge with the original entries visable.
    C. Job cannot print but correct paper loaded as job is associated to a duplicate not currently loaded.
    D. Calibration Page cannot be printed but correct paper loaded - Origional Cataloge entry has been deleted.
    E. Calibration page indicates it is not associated to a Paper Cataloge entry - It was deleted.
    F. Job Preset editing showing that the paper cataloge is missing but there is no way to change.


    Hope this helps
    Attached Images          

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    thistlegorm is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status
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    I am going to a one of my customers tomorrow with several V80 - can you confirm Patch Level on the Fiery - Which version of CWS 5 & Firmware version on the IOT + plus replicatication steps if you can make it do it & I will see if I can replicate - if so I can capture the necessary & raise a log - more the better..
    Remember you are what you eat ! I'm a twix..

  7. #7
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    Default

    Hi I have attached the info which you requested, as I understand it everything is current.
    We haven't as yet estabilished what is triggering the duplicate entries.
    We have had duplicate entries occur once or twice a month since installation back in 08-2015.
    We are constantly changing paper stocks in trays 5, 6 & 7 but 1, 2 & 3 don't change very often.
    Even though the Double A Bond is normally in 1, 2 & 3 we still have duplicates, so I don't think it is related to any particular tray.
    I have also attached a print out of the Paper Cataloge XML File for info.
    Many thanks for your assistance.

  8. #8
    Tfoulke is offline Fiery Certified Professional Tfoulke is on a distinguished path
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    Question Same Issue here...

    Was this ever escalated or resolved? I have a customer with this exact issue. Additionally his V80 will randomly changed to a different stock mid job causing him to have to reprint on the correct stock.
    Over time we have deleted all the duplicate stocks; run the cleanup.bat; updated the V80 to the latest firmware; completely reloaded the EX Fiery. I am going onsite again today, about 3 and 1/2 months after the Fiery reload, to address the issue again.

  9. #9
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    Default Partially Resolved

    We didn't get any response to this issue so we reloaded the Fiery from scratch and then loaded CWS 5.8.66 on all workstations and the server in December 2016

    I removed the Paper Catalogue option from the Toolbar on all the client workstations as I suspected that this might be causing the duplications.

    We had 2 duplications in the first 2 months which we quickly unpublished rather than deleted, which had caused problems previously with all the Calibrations & workflows which were based on them.

    I replaced the HDD in the Fiery with a SSD as the Fiery was incredibly slow which I also suspected had something to do with the duplicates being created, as the delay in loading a paper stock on the V80 and it showing up on the Fiery had been between 2 to 5 minutes and in most cases still had to be done 2 or 3 times on the V80 to trigger the change on the Fiery.

    We subsequently then loaded the SP patch and others on the Fiery and later the Firmware update on the V80 as they became available and since then have not had a recurrence.

    One problem that did occur though was all the new profiles we created after the reload always fail with the message that the paper in not in available the catalogue even though no papers in the catalogue have ever been deleted and the original enties are still there!

    We just updated to CWS 6 over the weekend and so far so good, but I am concerned that you cannot Edit/Delete the Toolbar items which gives CWS clients easy access to the Paper Catalogue again, which I believe should only be on the server and also belive that is a entry is unpublished at the server it should not show up on the Client CWS!
    Last edited by DALTAR Print; 08-28-2017 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Tfoulke is offline Fiery Certified Professional Tfoulke is on a distinguished path
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    Thumbs up Re: Partially resolved

    Thanks DALTAR, for your quick response. My customer first saw this issue in Dec. of last year. They are on SP2 with automatic updates and CWS 5.8.94. I escalated this on the Xerox side today, we'll see where that goes. I am going to update the V80 to the latest firmware tomorrow. If I find any resolution I will update this thread.

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