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Thread: Pantone Matching fails on Dropped PDFs

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Pantone Matching fails on Dropped PDFs

    I've been having an odd problem since my tech rebuilt my server. Since I've been temporarily (I hope!) unable to send directly from InDesign, I've been creating PDFs and dropping them into Command Workstation.

    Problem is, now I can't seem to apply my previously saved color profiles. The color does not change! I even created a profile that was really off the charts wacky just to see if it would do anything. The color is exactly the same.

    The only commands that seem to do anything are the lightening/darkening option. I can't even seem to affect the PMS spot colors directly. I'll change it using CWS and it's like I set nothing at all.

    Any ideas?

    Also, as a temp fix, I was planning to print out the color sheets (you know the ones that say "process simulation of PANTONE solid coated colors) and just choosing a pantone in the file and sending it straight -- however -- I've not been able to find where to print these from. I used to do it right from the C1070 console but I don't see it listed.

    Help!

  2. #2
    StarDigital is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor StarDigital is on a distinguished path
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    Make sure the default color profile found in Device center Color setup is the same as the one you are using in your job properties. If they are different then yes you can change it and it won't show. Also make sure the pantone you change is the 'first' on the list as it drops down from top to bottom. Meaning that if you have several groups that have the same pantone and you change the second, the first will still be used in the file. If neither of those is the cause respond back.

    Dan

  3. #3
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    I've checked... the default color profile found in Device center Color setup is the same as the one I am using in my job properties, and my spot color is first in the list so it picks it up before the others.

    It's so weird. The same file sent from InDesign changes colors with no problem... except that it only sends 8.5x11 of the page regardless of the setting (which is why I am dropping PDFs). This client is extremely particular about his colors -- it's the only reason I noticed.

    Any idea where the color sheets are? I'm going to have to go old school...

  4. #4
    ColorQA_Victor is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor ColorQA_Victor is on a distinguished path
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    Sherry,

    Is there any chance the conversion to PDF is converting the spot colors to CMYK? If you have Adobe Acrobat Pro, you can open the PDF and use the Object Inspector to ensure your spot color objects are indeed defined in the named color space.

    With older generation Fiery servers, you can print the Pantone coated library from the Fiery's test page function. I believe there is also a version of the patch page in the User Software CD/DVD that is bundled with all Fierys.
    Victor Ibarra
    Fiery Lead QA Engineer - Color & Imaging

  5. #5
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    Yes, I've double checked and the PDFs are retaining the spot colors when asked. I am doing nothing different than we did before. We have presets that make sure the files retain the original color spaces/settings.

    I simply can't affect the color, ANY color, regardless of whether the color is PMS or CMYK. The only thing that works is the lighter/darker item. I can go lighter or darker using CWS, but nothing else affecting the appearance of color or density works.

    It's frustrating and a waste of time to have to go all the way back to InDesign every single time I need to get closer to a color, create a "near neighbor" pallet, print it, then choose a Spot or 4color that will match, then remap the colors in the file to color selected, then re-PDF... ... then reprint... especially when this was all so super simple before.

    At least I found a work around for the missing "custom sizes" that no longer works. I just choose a listed paper size that is closest to the custom size I want to choose (usually a little larger) and change it to the actual size on CWS.

    So I discovered... it's not the PDFs that won't let me adjust color. NO colors are adjusting. None.

    Is there a toggle somewhere that tells CWS to use ONLY incoming color settings? Could it be that simple?

  6. #6
    ColorQA_Victor is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor ColorQA_Victor is on a distinguished path
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    Sherry,

    I sorry that you are experiencing this issue with your server. It may take a little work to figure out what is going, but I have high confidence we can get you back on track with your workflow. What server are you operating? If you are using a server that was released in the past couple of years, there is a way to generate a log that can help me look into the issue. If you would like to contact me off the forum, you can send me an email at victori@efi.com.

    -victor
    Victor Ibarra
    Fiery Lead QA Engineer - Color & Imaging

  7. #7
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    Default Similar issues here...

    I've had similar problems with colour as well from InDesign and CWS. I've found to causes and solutions.

    1. Windows10 likes to colour map in CWS where it isn't suppose to. (Which is probably why they don't support Windows10 yet. I fixed this by setting Command Workstation to run in Windows8 compatibility in the program shortcut.

    2. With InDesign, when converting to CMYK or to a new colour spaces for some reason causes some gamut compression with the icc. (Discovered this by importing and exporting control wedges) Using the FieryOptimized2 distiller settings from EFI seems to fix this (or keeps it from happening)

    https://training.efi.com/courses/cli...joboptions.zip

    I'm still in the process of testing and figuring out the best settings / workflow using InDesign and Fiery so I hope that helps. It's seems to be a tricky processes if you want everything perfect and you're learning as you go.

    Also spot colour replace is a great tool for matching Pantone colours. Factory settings can rarely be trusted (as you're probably using a different stock with a different white point) so tweaking the colour in fiery is a good practice for accurate colour.

    Good luck.

  8. #8
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Windows 10 in and of itself cannot in any way change how the Fiery processes color.

    Running CWS on Windows 10 will not in any way change how the Fiery processes color on any job.

  9. #9
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    Default Seeing similar issue

    Hello,

    I was wondering if any progress had been made on this issue. I am seeing a "similar" issue with dropped PDF files that have been imposed. Changes made to PMS values in Spot On Color are not honored in job output.

    Xerox C75 Press
    EX-i Fiery System FS100 w/SP6

  10. #10
    ColorQA_Victor is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor ColorQA_Victor is on a distinguished path
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    dsummers,

    Hello. My name is Victor and I worked on qualifying the Spot-On/spot color matching process for the C75 Fiery servers. My apologies for the issue you are encountering with your server - I'd like to see if I can help you out.

    I went ahead and revisited the C75 server and executed my spot color matching tests (which includes Spot-On color editing) and verified that my tests passed. Additionally, I took one of my multipage spot color test files and imposed the file. The impose/spot color matching test passed as well.

    Some of the spot color related issues that I have seen reported have been isolated issues. If you would like me to try to assist you in figuring out your issue, I'd be more than happy to work with you. Let me know and I can send my email and instructions on how to generate a server report file that I can use to hopefully figure out what is going on.

    -victor

    Quote Originally Posted by dsummers View Post
    Hello,

    I was wondering if any progress had been made on this issue. I am seeing a "similar" issue with dropped PDF files that have been imposed. Changes made to PMS values in Spot On Color are not honored in job output.

    Xerox C75 Press
    EX-i Fiery System FS100 w/SP6
    Victor Ibarra
    Fiery Lead QA Engineer - Color & Imaging

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