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Thread: ICC Profile: NONE

  1. #1
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    Default ICC Profile: NONE

    Hi

    When a PDF/Artwork has ICC Profile: NONE

    What would be the best way to print this?

    Using Bypass Conversion? Colourless OFF or OTHER??

    And would the APPE be enabled?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    ColorQA_Victor is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor ColorQA_Victor is on a distinguished path
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    Have you printed the file with Fiery factory/default settings? If so, were you satisfied with the color quality of the print? If you just want decent color quality, printing with default settings should provide pleasant color. If color quality (ie better gray balance/accurate skin tone/better tonal range)needs to be at a higher level, then one would need to calibrate the server with a spectrophotometer and use color management tools to achieve desired color.
    Victor Ibarra
    Fiery Lead QA Engineer - Color & Imaging

  3. #3
    StarDigital is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor StarDigital is on a distinguished path
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    i concur. Since the PDF doesn't have any predetermined color settings, you can use whatever settings you'd like. Run some samples of each to determine which most pleasing. Understand that Bypass and colorwise off should be last resort to achieving the proper color; they are best for graphics and not photos. My personal preference is SWOP coated 3 with pure primaries (prevents muddying the colors) and Adobe photo for RGB. However many arts i get look better with sRGB. The choice is yours.

    If you have a PDF that has a predetermined CMYK and/or RGB setting use those first and then modify. I've found some that say sRGB, look better with Adobe and visa-versa. Here you're just setting which color calculation space you're implementing.

    Dan

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    Thank you for taking the time to reply,

    Very helpful suggestions!


    Would APPE ideally be enabled for untagged CMYK profiles? with embedded profile enabled too with default Source? or disabled so the fiery controls what happens?

  5. #5
    StarDigital is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor StarDigital is on a distinguished path
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    I've posted this opinion many times and i'll say it again. I've had more problems with APPE on than off. I currently have it turned off in config and have had no reason to turn it on. My case may be unique or common i don't know. My printers can handle every job just fine, but i cannot vouch for KM or Ricoh or any others in this case. So the option is up to you. If you do encounter issues it is the first thing i recommend unchecking for problem solving. And as to your question, APPE off works on 'untagged' PDFs just as well as tagged PDFs.

    Dan

  6. #6
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    Default RE: ICC Profile: NONE

    I'll leave the APPE topic alone except to say that color management works via both PDF interpreter and the PostScript one.

    Color jobs need to be color managed to get the best results, to get reprints to work on the future, and in case jobs ever need to be matched from one print system to the other.

    Bypass conversion and colorwise off are special purpose settings used when creating new calibration sets and profiles.

    It is no uncommon to have untagged colors in source files, especially for CMYK. 99% of the CMYK you get is made in Photoshop by a designer or prepress person converting to CMYK in the Mode menu of Photoshop. This almost always makes SWOP separations and has since 1995 or so. You can choose SWOP on the Fiery but it will limit your gamut since SWOP is a standard for publication printing on #3 coated paper. GRACoL is a much better choice since you'll get more gamut if you are printing on a high quality coated digital paper and since the GRACoL profile matches the tonality and gray balance of SWOP exactly due to the good work of the G7 community that made the GRACoL profile. Remember the value of G7 calibrating a conventional press it to make that same SWOP CMYK made in Photoshop print great on a conventional press that doesn't have color management controls. GRACoL however targets the LAB appearance values a conventional offset press gets on a #1 sheet so it has more gamut (saturated colors) than the SWOP 3 or SWOP 5 spaces.

    For RGB, Dan has said this before but choose what looks best between adobeRGB and sRGB, If you get some jobs from a design group or agency that uses AdobeRGB as their standard or if you print lots of images from high end digital cameras, Adobe might be a good choice. Chances are though that you get files from all over the place with images shot on all levels of cameras. If this is the case odds are that lots of your data is really sRGB (even if the tag got stripped off it somewhere) so that is usually a safer choice.

    ~Lou

  7. #7
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    Thank you Dan - We too have had problems with APPE enabled, such as losing layers/images on artwork once processed. we've since started to leave this off, and everything works fine. Going off topic!


    Will try your suggestion of using GRACoL as before we haven't really touched anything except Fogra39 which is default and Bypass - we've seemed to had better results with this for some reason!

    Mega thanks!!

    kirsty

  8. #8
    StarDigital is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor StarDigital is on a distinguished path
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    Your welcome. And remember that bypass and colorwise off makes everything a higher saturation, as it takes in the entire color spectrum and not the controlled colorspace that GraCol would give you. This could be good for graphics jobs, but it is very bad for photo jobs. The best solution as Lou said is to stick with a CMYK source profile that gives you 'repeatable' quality (and good for cross platform production). If you ever have a job that needs tight color quality and gets repeated often, calibrate beforehand. Color drift can happen but the fresh calibration will be your anchor point for repeatability.

    dan

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    Ah was hoping to find an explanation on what the Bypass and Colorwise off does etc.

    Thanks, Have definitely made it clearer for me on what actually happens with these settings!

    Kirsty

  10. #10
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Bypass Conversion literally bypasses the 4-3-4 conversion from source colorspace (as defined either by the job ticket or by built-in profile) to engine colorspace, but the default file values still go through calibration.

    Colorwise Off bypasses the 4-3-4 conversion, and also bypasses calibration. Quite literally, everything is off.

    Or do I have that backwards. Anyway.

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