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Thread: E43-A Fiery Job Log Question

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    deckm00 is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor deckm00 is on a distinguished path
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    Default E43-A Fiery Job Log Question

    In the Fiery job log on a E43/83A (Ricoh 7100/7110) there is a column you can add called "5th separation usage". Does anyone know what the numbers are supposed to represent?
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    Yes this is referring to the toner coverage of the Specialty Colors used on your Fiery server (whether that is gold, silver or white).

    The numbers are based on a reference value of 1 being 7.5% coverage on A4/Letter.
    So 6.1 means that the job contained the same amount of toner that would be consumed by 6.1 pages of letter with 7.5% coverage.

    Examples:
    Full-page flood on A4/Letter (i.e. 100% coverage) will report a usage of 13.3
    7.5% coverage on A3/11x17 will report usage of 2.0
    Full-page flood on A3/11x17 will report usage of 26.6

    Clear as mud?

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    deckm00 is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor deckm00 is on a distinguished path
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    Default Thanks!

    thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greta_C View Post
    Yes this is referring to the toner coverage of the Specialty Colors used on your Fiery server (whether that is gold, silver or white).

    The numbers are based on a reference value of 1 being 7.5% coverage on A4/Letter.
    So 6.1 means that the job contained the same amount of toner that would be consumed by 6.1 pages of letter with 7.5% coverage.

    Examples:
    Full-page flood on A4/Letter (i.e. 100% coverage) will report a usage of 13.3
    7.5% coverage on A3/11x17 will report usage of 2.0
    Full-page flood on A3/11x17 will report usage of 26.6

    Clear as mud?
    Greta, thank you for the detail. Does the resulting value change if the fill is 100% vs 50% for the 5th Station toner on the print(s)? Using your 7.5% example with an 11x17, is this value of 2.0 assuming 100% density, such that a document designed at 50% would change the number to 1.0?

    This is important in trying to determine a reasonably accurate toner consumption rate for a given job, so some sort of "premium" can be apportioned from the total toner cartridge yield.

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    Greta,
    It would be nice to be able to segregate which results came from which Specialty Toner, as it appears that there isn't any field in the job to reflect that the job used White, or Clear, or Silver specifically.
    Thanks again for your response and qualification of these type of details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GJohnston View Post
    Greta, thank you for the detail. Does the resulting value change if the fill is 100% vs 50% for the 5th Station toner on the print(s)? Using your 7.5% example with an 11x17, is this value of 2.0 assuming 100% density, such that a document designed at 50% would change the number to 1.0?

    This is important in trying to determine a reasonably accurate toner consumption rate for a given job, so some sort of "premium" can be apportioned from the total toner cartridge yield.
    A value of 2.0 on 11x17 assumes 7.5% density average over the 11x17 sheet.
    100% Density on 11x17 (e.g. covering the whole page with specialty toner) would show a value of 26.6.

    A document designed with 50% coverage on an 11x17 sheet would show a value of 13.3.
    Does that answer your question, or did I misinterpret you?

    Also I agree that having a separate column for White, Silver and Clear would be helpful. I will submit this as a feature request.

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    Thank you Greta,
    What you're discussing is coverage. I'm inquiring if the number for any amount coverage of 100% density of White toner would yield the same 5th Separation Usage count, as the same coverage for a 50% (example) density patch. It would use less ink. So what I'm asking is, is there a correlation of the 5th Separation Value that is aware of the amount of ink that is required for the same coverage space. This could then be used to determine the 5th Separation consumption rate of the consumable for a particular print job.
    Thank you for your time and continuing expertise!

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    To be perfectly honest I don't know the answer to your question, and I don't have access to that kind of kit at the moment (I'm on the road).

    Could you try it out and let us know? Should only take 1 or 2 letter sheets to test...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greta_C View Post
    To be perfectly honest I don't know the answer to your question, and I don't have access to that kind of kit at the moment (I'm on the road).

    Could you try it out and let us know? Should only take 1 or 2 letter sheets to test...
    Greta,
    I tested a file composed for WHITE at 30% and 100%. Interestingly, I believe a bug exists that when using WHITE, it doesn't produce the 5th Separation Usage value. In review, it appears that the only files with some value in the field are all ones made with the CLEAR layer.
    I will have to wait til I put Clear in and retest. Also, as suggested previously, this correlation would have been more apparent if there was a column showing which Specialty Toner was related to to the specific job(s).

    Thanks as always for your fine direction, suggestions and interaction on all things Fiery CWS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GJohnston View Post
    Greta,
    I tested a file composed for WHITE at 30% and 100%. Interestingly, I believe a bug exists that when using WHITE, it doesn't produce the 5th Separation Usage value. In review, it appears that the only files with some value in the field are all ones made with the CLEAR layer.
    I will have to wait til I put Clear in and retest. Also, as suggested previously, this correlation would have been more apparent if there was a column showing which Specialty Toner was related to to the specific job(s).

    Thanks as always for your fine direction, suggestions and interaction on all things Fiery CWS!
    Greta,
    The Fiery Job Log only shows the 5th Station Separation Values for the ACTIVE Special Toner loaded, and doesn't show those values when the alternate Special Toner that was in the machine when at the time those jobs where run. As you'd indicated earlier to my suggestion that the job log should indicated which toner was used to produce the file that shows it's 5th Station Separation value. This is now even more necessary, due to the toggle for only showing values for the ink that is in the current active config.

    Please let me know how we can declare this as a "bug", in that the Fiery Job Log should show all 5th Station Separation Values for historical jobs, regardless of what 5th Station Toner is active in the machine only. At present, it means that to see all 5th Station Values, we have to either place the Ink in the machine, and pull the JOB LOG, and then switch to each other 5th Station Toners and repeat the JOB LOB export, then marry the two otherwise identical JOB LOGS, to merge the data for every JOB printed.

    Current automation and clearing for JOB LOG exports, would yield the loss of any 5th Separation Usage for any Special Toner not in the active configuration at the time of the JOB LOG export.

    Recommendations, and workarounds are much needed, and until this is resolved, this is a hole in the ability to create proper analysis with the total data.

    Thank you for your time and attention to this important need.

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