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Thread: Color Editor?

  1. #1
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    Default Color Editor?

    Hello all,

    I have only been in the MFP world for about 6-7 years so I am not very familiar with older fiery systems.
    I have been going back and forth with a potential customer who is using CWS4 on a Canon C1+. They are giving me the following settings (in bold) which do not make sense to me. I am trying to run samples using similar settings on my E-42B (Lanier Pro C5100).

    from customer:
    SWOP Coated
    Black : Input 56/ Output 43
    Magenta : Input 54/ Output 45
    Cyan : Input 52/ Output 48
    Yellow : Input 50/ Output 51


    Is there a setting for this on the newer systems?

    Thanks
    Ren

  2. #2
    thistlegorm is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status
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    Default

    Looks like a substitute colour to me ? on your Fiery - not familiar with your particular box ? however on mine you normally look in the spot colours - create a new "substitute Group" within that library create a new substitute colour with the input being cmyk values on the left & the output cymk values on the right. Then print your job with "use substitute colours" ticked in the colour tab of your job properties..

    Unfortunately - whilst the mechanics of this are rather simple - how this works with new output profiles with your new machine & then are interpreted by the RIP might very well lead to a different colour.. the CMYK "mix" is not measured around the globe - as say a centimetre ? that is universal, the CMYK mix for a particular colour isn't - it is dependent on many variables...
    Last edited by thistlegorm; 12-16-2015 at 04:41 PM.
    Remember you are what you eat ! I'm a twix..

  3. #3
    ColorQA_Victor is offline Senior Fiery Forum Contributor ColorQA_Victor is on a distinguished path
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    Default

    From the info provided, I'm guessing they have customized their CMYK workflow to meet a response they are satisfied with. What they are doing is adjusting the CMYK Source profile's response and printing their CMYK jobs with that modified CMYK source profile.

    If you are using Command Workstation 5, you need to access the server's profiles. The path to the profiles is Device Center > Resources > Profiles. Once there, select the SWOP Coated profile and then select the Edit button that is located on the right side of the UI. From the Edit button menu, select Color Editor. Next you will see a graph. Mouse click anywhere on the Cyan curve. When select the curve, a point will be created - when the point is selected, the input and output text fields become active. Enter the input/output values for Cyan. Repeat the steps for MY and K. You can bring the desired curve to the foreground by selecting the color icon. After you make the edit, you need to process the job with the edited profile.

    If you are trying match the customer's desired response, this could be challenging with this method as the customer's printer and your printer might have a different response. There are a lot of other variables, but that is one of the main bottlenecks.

    If you are trying to match the customer's desired color response with your printer, my suggestion would be to use a workflow that uses device link profiles. You need special software like Fiery Color Profile Suite to make device link profiles. If you can access the customer's edited SWOP Coated profile and the output profile, it will take you in the right direction to trying to match a desired color response.
    Victor Ibarra
    Fiery Lead QA Engineer - Color & Imaging

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorQA_Victor View Post
    From the info provided, I'm guessing they have customized their CMYK workflow to meet a response they are satisfied with. What they are doing is adjusting the CMYK Source profile's response and printing their CMYK jobs with that modified CMYK source profile.

    If you are using Command Workstation 5, you need to access the server's profiles. The path to the profiles is Device Center > Resources > Profiles. Once there, select the SWOP Coated profile and then select the Edit button that is located on the right side of the UI. From the Edit button menu, select Color Editor. Next you will see a graph. Mouse click anywhere on the Cyan curve. When select the curve, a point will be created - when the point is selected, the input and output text fields become active. Enter the input/output values for Cyan. Repeat the steps for MY and K. You can bring the desired curve to the foreground by selecting the color icon. After you make the edit, you need to process the job with the edited profile.

    If you are trying match the customer's desired response, this could be challenging with this method as the customer's printer and your printer might have a different response. There are a lot of other variables, but that is one of the main bottlenecks.

    If you are trying to match the customer's desired color response with your printer, my suggestion would be to use a workflow that uses device link profiles. You need special software like Fiery Color Profile Suite to make device link profiles. If you can access the customer's edited SWOP Coated profile and the output profile, it will take you in the right direction to trying to match a desired color response.
    Hey thanks for the response. I did not think about substitute colors. Does that only affect CMYK jobs or do RGB based jobs get affected also?
    Ren Sukhram
    Creative Director | Senior Color/Production Specialist | EFI Fiery Certified Expert
    “Creativity is contagious, pass it on” – Albert Einstein

  5. #5
    thistlegorm is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status
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    No - You can Create an RGB to CMYK substitute colour as well.
    Remember you are what you eat ! I'm a twix..

  6. #6
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    All though substitute color seems like an approach this is only for 1 color at a time. I think the response I got for the prospect is supposed to affect all colors.
    Ren Sukhram
    Creative Director | Senior Color/Production Specialist | EFI Fiery Certified Expert
    “Creativity is contagious, pass it on” – Albert Einstein

  7. #7
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    Default

    so I found out what the client is referring to. For any profile you can adjust the input/output settings.

    Screenshot attached

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    thank you all tho for your responses!
    Ren Sukhram
    Creative Director | Senior Color/Production Specialist | EFI Fiery Certified Expert
    “Creativity is contagious, pass it on” – Albert Einstein

  8. #8
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    Default RE: Color Editor?

    Making an edit to the output profile with color editor (really moving the calibration target curves) does effect all colors at a given tonal range. This feature is usually used to make a quick tweak to a print when you don't have time to do the right thing which is make a calibration set and a profile for your press and paper, or re-calibrate, or re-profile if you have already done these creation steps.

    I know its tempting to just adjust color this way all the time but your will end up with dozens of profiles, ne for each edit you save. When we see shops working this way they are usually having a hard time with reprints since a) they don't know which edit they last printed the job with and b) the print engine has drifted so the edit doesn't work the same way for the reprint even if they are able to identify which edit was used for the initial run.

    It is extremely unlikely that taking these edits from one print system and using them on another system will result in a match, unless the systems already match without the curve edit.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou_P View Post
    Making an edit to the output profile with color editor (really moving the calibration target curves) does effect all colors at a given tonal range. This feature is usually used to make a quick tweak to a print when you don't have time to do the right thing which is make a calibration set and a profile for your press and paper, or re-calibrate, or re-profile if you have already done these creation steps.

    I know its tempting to just adjust color this way all the time but your will end up with dozens of profiles, ne for each edit you save. When we see shops working this way they are usually having a hard time with reprints since a) they don't know which edit they last printed the job with and b) the print engine has drifted so the edit doesn't work the same way for the reprint even if they are able to identify which edit was used for the initial run.

    It is extremely unlikely that taking these edits from one print system and using them on another system will result in a match, unless the systems already match without the curve edit.
    Thanks for all the info. Those were the steps taken by the prospect and with your response I can now approach them correctly.

    I have never used CPS until about a month ago but I never got a chance to really dive into it. I will make time to do some further profiling.

    thanks again!
    Ren Sukhram
    Creative Director | Senior Color/Production Specialist | EFI Fiery Certified Expert
    “Creativity is contagious, pass it on” – Albert Einstein

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