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Thread: Printing vs CREO

  1. #11
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbrprinting View Post
    One more:
    Used to be that if a customer sent a sad piece of artwork, lets say a BC with a logo, and that logo being the most horrible jpeg anyone could ever imagine had a 2-4% yellow in the background where it out to be clear. We would just bring up the color adjustment screen and click the offending % of color and curve it out.

    Where might this be in Fiery?
    yeah, doesn't exist.

    Foundationally, the Creo is WAY different than the Fiery.

  2. #12
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    More than foundational, it feels like just... a real lack of tools and options in RIP

  3. #13
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    Does anyone have any input ont he other questions?

    I'm just saying these seem like common sense tools, it's tough... we're just frustrated. Are there modules for the rip that allow expanded functionality or something akin to that thinking?

    I think the product has some great areas of focus, but alot of the missing functionality, especially after all the years they've been in the industry, is just time consuming and really frustrating.

  4. #14
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    I am also being asked to ask the following:

    how can we create a queue, not a folder, that we print directly to from say InDesign, and it will take say an 8.5x11 and impose it (using already setup parameters and paper, and pre-rip it according to those pre-setup parameters?

  5. #15
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    ah, see, now you're exposing a huge difference in how EFI does things vs how Creo does things.

    You need:

    a) an external Fiery
    b) with an Impose license installed

    Send a job over, 1-up. Using the manual impose method, impose the job. When it's correctly set up, in the Impose window save the settings as a template.

    Now: in Command Workstation, in Device Center, set up a new virtual printer. Set all the attributes that you need. In the Layout tab, on the left, choose the Impose button (bottom button). In the drop-down Template menu on the right, choose that template name you created above.

    There are many moving pieces to all of this, and the ability to do this only goes back to fairly recently--with the advent of Fiery System 10. And it does burn an Impose license that you might otherwise want to have on your desktop instead, although it's my understanding that you may be able to point Command Workstation to Impose templates on your desktop computer and it will all still work just fine. If that's the case, then you can keep the Impose license on your desktop computer if you want.

    In the EFI world, different engineering groups create different technologies that EFI bolts together in various ways. And EFI offers these technologies to manufacturers almost like a Chinese menu, where manufacturers pick and choose what bits to include or not in any given configuration. That's why it doesn't look as integrated as you're used to, and that's why you can't assume that any given Fiery has any given capabilities.

    Impose is one of those things that's in a gray area for me. I think fully featured imposition should be built into the RIP, a la Creo. But I'm comfortable with that being a non-GUI setup like Creo. I like EFI's GUI for Impose, plus that it can save out as a flattened PDF; they could certainly keep that as an add-on like it is today and I wish Creo had such capabilities.

    But Impose is representative of the complete difference in philosophy that separates EFI from Creo. Creo RIPs the images, down to the image level, and then shoves them around dynamically per the job ticket. With Creo, you can change the imposition and it doesn't have to re-RIP the file at all. In fact, until a few years ago with Creo you could send over a 1-up business card (for example) and set the quantity to whatever you wanted; when Creo manufactured imposed sheets, it would make as many as needed to give you the quantity of business cards you specified. The quantity was for the 1-up piece, not manufactured sheets. This meant you could change the imposition as needed and never have to touch the quantity; the Creo did the math for you, dynamically.

    EFI doesn't RIP down to the image level. It RIPs down to the bounding box level. If an end user files-prints a business card down using Word or Publisher, what the Fiery sees is a letter-size bounding box. And that's what it operates on. Creo ignore the bounding box and finds the image, and operates on that. This is what you're struggling with.

    And because Impose is a separate program from the RIP, there's absolutely no integration between the Fiery job ticket quantity setting and what happens in imposition. There'd be no way to set the quantity based on a 1-up piece and have the Fiery figure out how many sheets to manufacturer at any given time. That task would always be up to the operator, to do the math based on how many items per sheet he's got.

    With modern page layout tools and the ability to send custom page sizes to the printer, plus the ability to create custom size PDFs and download those directly to the printer, the above isn't such a big deal anymore. But the core difference in philosophy is still there.

    Another example of this core philosophy difference is subset finishing. But that's for another time.

  6. #16
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    You can find a variety of How To guides on our http://w3.efi.com/Fiery/Products/CWS5 site that can be helpful. Look for the Fiery Command WorkStation 5 How-To link in the Learn More section on the right hand side of the site.

  7. #17
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    Like I said this is the kind of stuff I couldnt even get answered from the actual guys supposed to be answering it...

  8. #18
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Are you a customer of a Xerox dealer, or Xerox direct?

    PM me.

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