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Thread: Spot color optimization probably not working?

  1. #1
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    Default Spot color optimization probably not working?

    Hi!

    Today I've tried CWS' "Optimize spot color" feature for the first time and somehow, I'm a little bit confused. Here's what I did:

    I wanted to print a document containing the color HKS 43 K. A quick look into CWS revealed that my system can't reproduce this color quite well (deltaE around 33) and that it would look way more violet than the original color.

    So I've matched the job settings in order to reflect the correct output profile and started the wizard for this single spot color (again, using the same job settings). After measuring the patches, the wizard reported a deltaE value of 7 which would be a great step forward for me. So I've finished the process without doing any further iterations.

    Now the problem is that my output still looks like it did before and the spot color table still shows the high deltaE value (33) instead of the optimized one (7).

    Is it a bug or shouldn't the table automatically reflect the new values after performing an optimization run?

    CWS 5.6.0.24
    CPS 4.6.1.05
    EFI ES-2000
    IC-306 v3.01 / KM C6000
    Output profile created using CPS (but not set as default output profile)
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

  2. #2
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    Default RE: Spot color optimization probably not working?

    This is a known limitation. The spot color table in Spot on does not see the optimized color and therefore still reports the old DE. Tell me the LAB values you are seeing measured in the optimizer and I will tell you the real DE to be sure.

    What you are missing is that to make it better you need to iterate the color in the optimizer. Print and measure patches once or twice and the DE will go down if there is space in the output profile gamut. Then the output will look different. Let us know how it goes.

    ~Lou

  3. #3
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    Hi Lou,

    thanks for your response. Well, this would be a great enhancement for future server releases because one could easily optimize a few spot colour from time to time and could precisely tell the customer what dE to expect. I always liked the spot colour table for exactly that reason ;-)

    But the optimized lookup information is being embedded in the output profile, isn't it?
    So I could calculate the dE for myself (at least I suppose I could do it)...
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

  4. #4
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    Sorry to bump this old thread but I've run into the same problem again, now using more recent component versions (FS 150 pro / FCPS 4.9).
    I've created a custom paper profile using FCPS and checked the dE value of a specific, user defined spot color using CWS' device center. It told me a dE-value of 9.5, which is quite far away from being acceptable.
    Then I've used FCPS to optimize this specific color and was quite impressed that FCPS optimized it down to a dE of 1.5.
    CWS still showed dE 9.5 but I've printed the job and measured this color using the verifier module and guess what, the measured dE was >10 :-(

    Of course, it could be a hardware problem (measurement or output device) and I would really like to verify that the ICC profile has been correctly "patched" by FCPS.
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

  5. #5
    DragonLeaves is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor DragonLeaves is on a distinguished path
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    Lou, could you point to a learning resource for this? Thanks :-)

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    I don't know of a learning resource for this but I will forward this post to our training group. I know we have not fixed this, but you can work around it in the sense of looking at the device color values and seeing that they are updated after optimization.

    A good trick might be to duplicate the color then optimize so that afterward you can compare the pre- and post-optimization colors.

    ~Lou

  7. #7
    DragonLeaves is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor DragonLeaves is on a distinguished path
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    Lou, that CPS Spot Color optimizor is a beauty! I used it this morning on a dozen at a time.. fast!

  8. #8
    oxident is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor oxident is on a distinguished path
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    Lou, great idea. I'll test that. Anyway, it would be really, really useful if the current state of optimization could be seen/verified somewhere within CWS or CPS.
    IC-306 v3.01 FS100 Pro / KM C6000, IC-308 v2.1 FS150 Pro / KM C71hc / SD-513, IC-414 / KM C754
    CWS 5.8 SP2, Windows 10 x64

  9. #9
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    I completely agree we should show the result in the spot color table. We'll work on that in the future. BUt I am concerned about Oxident's report that a color is optimized down to 1.5 DE but then when the job prints its over 10.

    If you can reproduce this it would be useful to have all the prints from the optimization process since the first one should be off by 10 and the last one by 1.5. Assuming we can prove that then my next suspicion is that the spot color is not really in the job, but I bet you checked that. The other challenge is to make sure you use the profile you optimized but I bet you thought of that too. Anyway, let us know if you are still seeing this problem.

    ~Lou

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