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Thread: black detection ticker box missing

  1. #11
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    Aug 2014
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    @oxident, i tested it without any registration marks too and still reading the file as color. I'm not using any cmy or rgb gray all black ink only. I even tested 100% K solid and text color only on one page and it still reads it as a color click. You are right though somehow the machine interprets it as a false color clicks even if all black ink only on that page. Now, I remember how I bypass that problem before, I thought it has something to do with the black detection check box but it turns out it was another step i did that did the trick to get the right click charges.

    For anyone interested in this issue, here are the steps to process it.

    if you are printing duplex mixed color and b&w file: You can use the mixed media section under media tab + click new page range + Change the color mode to Grayscale + enter the pages you wanted to print only in BW then click OK. on color tab you must select color. Then print. the click charges will be right, color is charge color and B&W is charge as B&W.

    if you are printing duplex mixed color and b&w file with VDP: mixed media doesn't work with VDP (at least it didn't worked when i was testing it using freeform1). So, this step I found to print mixed color and BW is a little bit complicated and longer.

    I have two files. First is the master file with 2 pages, printing one side color, other side black & white. Second file is the mail merge/VDP file, one side blank, the other side B&W
    1. I printed my b&w pages (for each my master and vdp files) as a postscript composite gray print from indesign (since this is the original software I used to make the file) then distilled it in acrobat to get a true Black/gray only print files.
    2. I Combined my B&W master page with the color master page in acrobat then sent to my J75 hold que for duplex printing. I also sent my distilled vdp file to the printer as well.
    3. test print master file make sure it is charged correctly. Since the black ink only page was already distilled as composite gray, the machine read it correctly as a B&W click automatically (newer machine don't need the black detection check box anymore, it does it automatically, older machine you have to make sure the black detection box is checked)
    4. I set my master file as the master page in VDP tab then processed
    5. next I changed my vdp file to print together with the master file, test run it and it worked. B&W pages are charged B&W and color pages are charge color
    so the trick is, you have to distill your B&W page as composite gray, then send to printer it will be read/interpret by the machine as a true B&W click. If anyone knows a much simpler way to do duplex mixed color and BW printing with VDP please let me know. thanks

  2. #12
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    you know, it wouldn't at ALL surprise me if default behavior on J75 is for incoming K only to be forced to rich black.

    Do you have Image Viewer (GA Premium Edition feature)? That will tell you what the Fiery actually processed the file to.

    But seriously, yes, check the expert color settings, black processing, and try forcing all black to K only. See what happens.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
    you know, it wouldn't at ALL surprise me if default behavior on J75 is for incoming K only to be forced to rich black.

    Do you have Image Viewer (GA Premium Edition feature)? That will tell you what the Fiery actually processed the file to.

    But seriously, yes, check the expert color settings, black processing, and try forcing all black to K only. See what happens.

    Thanks Adam! I found the easiest way. yes my j75 default forces it into a pure black (i guess this one is similar to rich black) which reads it as a color click.

    so the shortest way to fix the problem is: for a B&W and color duplex printing with VDP make sure to change the behavior of black in expert settings + Gray & Black Processing Tab + Black section: change it to black text and graphics to NORMAL. also, Composite Overprint ticker box must be unchecked (color tab). This way the click charge will be correct one black and one color.

    I do have image viewer but i am not familiar to it yet.

  4. #14
    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Well, pure black is pure black. That is to say, if the Fiery senses a rich black (vector) in the document, it will process that as pure 0C 0M 0Y 100K. So that should have worked.

    Rich black is the opposite: if it senses a pure K (vector) in the document, it will process and print that as rich black.

    And normal tells the Fiery to use whatever is in the file.

    Composite overprint should not affect black processing. Double check that with your machine meters.

    Image Viewer: if you have a processed job in the Hold area (dark yellow, with a little arrow in the icon) then you may right-click that job and choose ImageViewer. You will see the actual pixels the Fiery processed, that it sends to the engine. Goof around in that window and you will find the CMYK recipe that will show as you move your cursor around the window.

    If there's ever a dispute over what gets imaged on the sheet, start with Image Viewer and see what the Fiery actually processed.

  5. #15
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    @adam, yes, pure black should just print 100%K, but somehow my j75 reads pure black as a color and not black and white click. And also the composite over print check box seems to affect the color vs black and white click as well. I don't know why, but when sending a print job from the j75 print driver to the fiery, in the color tab properties, when changed to grayscale mode, it will automatically unchecked the composite over print selection if you have it selected to resolve the conflict. The fiery rip though does not give me that conflict, if I change the color mode to grayscale from fiery.

    I have a color specialist came in the other day to fix the other color issues I'm having. I asked him how to do duplex b&w and color combo print. He told me I just need to change the color process method to use Full Source GCR as that one preserve black channel. We tried it and it didn't work, he checked the file in the image viewer and everywhere he clicks there is only black ink on that page so he ends up taking my file home to check on their printer. I have yet to hear from him, I'm not sure if he'll be able to resolve it.

  6. #16
    thistlegorm is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status
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    Any chance you can send a ripped archive with JER ? I will try your workflow on one of my J75 - drop me a PM
    Remember you are what you eat ! I'm a twix..

  7. #17
    thistlegorm is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status thistlegorm has achieved rock star status
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    OK - Got the files - let me look at this in the morning - I am going to a J75 - so will report back later - I think I can already see what the problem is - but will check in the morning..
    Remember you are what you eat ! I'm a twix..

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