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Thread: Need Best Practice: "Approximating" output from Ricoh to Canon

  1. #1
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    Default Need Best Practice: "Approximating" output from Ricoh to Canon

    I have a bizarre customer requests I was hoping someone can help me with.

    Target: Ricoh CL7200 Laser Printer
    Output: Canon Imagerunner 5250 with Imagepass controller
    CPS version: 3.1

    Customer is a marketing department with no calibration routine, and little understanding of color. They want the Canon to more closely approximate the output they get on their Ricoh, which is, from what i understand, washed out (I have no print samples yet.) We will not guarantee a match of any kind, but what is the best process for this? The Canon was completely calibrated by Canon and is producing correct results.

    Keep in mind that this is not a long term solution, as customer expects to have all Canons within 6 month. So simpler is better. Is there a best practices or whitepaper on this?

    Normally, I would not even bother with so many uncontrolled variables, but they are good customers otherwise. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default RE: Need Best Practice: "Approximating" output from Ricoh to Canon

    You'll need to color manage the Ricoh prints to match the Canon.

    Print a CMYK profiling target (928 patches or so) on the Canon with all the "look great" color settings on. Make a profile from the measured patches and use it as the source profile on the Ricoh laser printer.

    Not sure if their driver will let you do that. If you are printing from Adobe apps you can choose the Canon profile as your "proofing" profile when printing.

  3. #3
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    Default Washed out Ricoh Colors

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou_P View Post
    You'll need to color manage the Ricoh prints to match the Canon.

    Print a CMYK profiling target (928 patches or so) on the Canon with all the "look great" color settings on. Make a profile from the measured patches and use it as the source profile on the Ricoh laser printer.

    Not sure if their driver will let you do that. If you are printing from Adobe apps you can choose the Canon profile as your "proofing" profile when printing.
    I should probably clarify. They want the Canon to match the washed out look of the Ricoh. They REFUSE to change the Ricoh at all. The Ricoh has no Fiery either- just a driver as far as I know. All the color control I have is on the Canon. [And yes, I know how ludicrous this request is as a professional. It's like trying to match a printing press to a proofing device, not the other way around. But they are paying the bills, so what can I do? At least they are both toner devices.]

    As for measuring 928 patches. I don't have an IO table. Is it even possible to do that with the ES1000- even with the plastic device that allows you to read strips accurately?

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    adam1991 is offline Fiery Forum Expert Contributor adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful adam1991 has proven very helpful
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    Default

    Lou's process is correct; simply do it backwards. Use the profile generated by the Ricoh output as a simulation profile on the Canon.

    You can certainly measure however many patches you need using the ES1000 and Color Profiler (for example).

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
    Lou's process is correct; simply do it backwards. Use the profile generated by the Ricoh output as a simulation profile on the Canon.

    You can certainly measure however many patches you need using the ES1000 and Color Profiler (for example).
    Yes, that makes sense. I was wondering if you have any ideas about which patch set to use, since I have to print direct to the Ricoh.

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    Default RE: Need Best Practice: "Approximating" output from Ricoh to Canon

    Its up to you which way you do it but it the Ricoh looks washed out I'm afraid you're going to have to simulate that on the canon - since it looks better it more likely has the gamut to simulate the washed out Ricoh.

    If the request is to improve the Ricoh you need to find out if it has a RIP in front of it. If so disable its color management and send a patch set (928 is fine) made in the CPS printer profiler PDF workflow (so you are sending the PDF. If no RIP just a print driver to the Ricoh, then make an RGB 917 patch PDF from Color Profiler suite and print that from acrobat with all color management turned off in the driver.

    Either way make a Ricoh output profile and load it for color management in the rip if there is one or choose it as the output space if printing to a network driver and the Ricoh should look better.

    After that you can proceed to profile the color managed ricoh and use that as the source profile on the Fiery for the Canon.

  7. #7
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    Cool Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou_P View Post
    Its up to you which way you do it but it the Ricoh looks washed out I'm afraid you're going to have to simulate that on the canon - since it looks better it more likely has the gamut to simulate the washed out Ricoh.

    If the request is to improve the Ricoh you need to find out if it has a RIP in front of it. If so disable its color management and send a patch set (928 is fine) made in the CPS printer profiler PDF workflow (so you are sending the PDF. If no RIP just a print driver to the Ricoh, then make an RGB 917 patch PDF from Color Profiler suite and print that from acrobat with all color management turned off in the driver.

    Either way make a Ricoh output profile and load it for color management in the rip if there is one or choose it as the output space if printing to a network driver and the Ricoh should look better.

    After that you can proceed to profile the color managed ricoh and use that as the source profile on the Fiery for the Canon.
    Unfortunately, I have to try to make the color accurate Canon match the washed out, uncalibrated Ricoh. They don't want the Ricoh changed in any way... it is their "gold standard."

    These marketing people are not the brightest lights in the harbor. So I will be forced to print the patches on the Ricoh (which has no RIP, driver only) to create a profile, and then push the output of my Canon (cringe) out of spec.

    I really don't want to do this, because it feels like an utter waste of time. But they tell me they have customers that demand that washed-out output (or so they say; for all I know their clients have never seen the output from the Canon and would probably prefer it anyway.) But, that is the game we play, right?

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