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Thread: MAX Densities --- Output TARGET ----

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    3

    Default MAX Densities --- Output TARGET ----

    Hallo,
    I have Fiery X3e for CF9001. The copier is new, it is able to print internal test charts perfect, with densities about 1.5 in C, M, K and 1.1 in Y. I mesure it with DTP32.
    If I want to print by calibrated Fiery, the printout is quite light, no strong colours, without good red. I think that is only because in OUTPUT profile are Dmax values C=1.43, M=1.05 and Y=0.77, K=1.59. With this M a Y is impossible to print strong red like in testcharts or Kodak target. If I increase all MAX densities to +10%, colours are radically brilliant.
    My questions
    1: has anybody better output profile with target with higher DMAX?
    2: What does the changing of DMAX values in SIMULATION profile? Why here are the same and modificable values? If I change DMAX in OUTPUT profile, printer prints darker, if I change DMAX in SIMULATION profile, printer prints darker too. If I change both values, printer prints more darker. But the DMAX values in SIMULATION profile are not corresponding to printout, becaouse this is affected to DMAX in OUTPUT profile - thus Dmax value in SIM. profile is not a real density that is print. So how densities are print out in magenta, if in SIMULATION profile is for example M=1.05 and in OUTPUT is M=1.3 ?
    Last edited by minolta1; 02-27-2011 at 01:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney, AU
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    49

    Default

    Hello,
    I'd suggest editing the DMax values of your output profile. Open ColorWise ProTools.
    Open Color Editor and then Select Profile.
    Change the View to be Output. Select the output profile you wish to adjust.
    A window will open showing a graph, with the current DMax values on the right. These values can't be changed in this view. In the top left hand corner, change the edit Mode from Custom to %Density. The graph will change, however more importantly the DMax values on the right can now be changed. As a guide, edit these to be 1.5 in C, M, K and 1.1 in Y as per your manual readings of your internal test chart. Save the profile with a different name and make this the default profile. Calibrate with the DTP-32 again. Within the Calibrator windows, select the Expert button. Under View Measurements, select Measurement vs Target. This graph will plot the DMax of the Target (output profile) compared to the measured DMax (from the Fiery calibration chart). Note down the measure Dmax. These are likely to be slightly different to the internal chart. You may need to edit the values once again in the output profile.
    From what you have described, it looks like in your case the printer is producing higher densities on your media compared to the factory output profile. Increasing the goal DMax values within the output profile to be closer to the actual DMax of your printer should help you to achieve stronger colors.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default I do NOT understand

    Hello,
    you did not answer my questions.
    1. I do not know where is able to find or download output profile with higher densities? Only the changing DMAX makes stronger colors, but linearity and the higlight colours falls down. So I want to get the tuned output profile or target.

    2. What does or what means the values DMAX in simulation profile and where is the connection with DMAX in output profile? Changing some value makes printout different. I am using printing in CMYK over Simulation profile Euroscale.

    3. Is correct my printing method from Photoshop? I have RGB picture. Than I want to print it - in Photoshop I convert it into the CMYK using Fogra 27 - then I print it and in Fiery is set the sim. profile Euroscale. So the picture goes by way of 2 transformations.
    Last edited by minolta1; 03-05-2011 at 02:44 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney, AU
    Posts
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    Default

    Hello,

    Thank you for the additional information. Perhaps before I elaborate on my previous reply, you mentioned that you are printing an RGB image from PhotoShop. Your initial issue is that your printouts are light and lacking saturation. As you pointed out, you try to minimise the number of color transformations. As you stated, you are converting from RGB to CMYK (Fogra 27) within PhotoShop and then the Fiery is converting to Euroscale. I assume that you have also tried printing the RGB image directly to the Fiery (that is not converting first to CMYK). If so, was the result very different? Another workflow that would be worth considering is to load the CF9001 Output profile into PhotoShop as the CMYK working space. Then first convert from RGB to this working space, then print to the Fiery with the Simulation Profile set to None.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    3

    Default

    Hello!
    The printing using double conversions - RGB to FOGRA 27 in Photoshop and then to EUROSCALE in Fiery, gives the best results. There are fine colours, very "live" image, perfect black point, and very good gamut, this method I am using and it is incomparable with direct RGB printing to Fiery. But max densities are the same, the same "lighter", of course it is because of no good output profile - standard out. profile Fiery X3e. If in this printing is bypass Fiery Sim. profile Euroscale (set to NONE), the print is blue-green and wrong - thus only the way is print over two transformations.
    You can make a test - set your max densities in your OUT profile of any Fiery to value that I described (standard X3e) and the print out will not have good basic colours. In standard X3e profile is impossible to print RED or MAGENTA comparable with Kodak colour target reference, the printout is markedly lighter in these colours. Density 1,05 in Magenta is not set in any other printer; if so, it is low-cost printer what can't print stronger colours. So that why is too low density in profile for printer
    that is able to print up to 1.6?
    And please, say me the connection between DMAX in simulation profile and DMAX in output profile. Both values take effect. If I need to increase DMAX in output profile, shall I do it in Sim. profile too or not? And why increasing DMAX in output and NO CHANGING DMAX in sim. profile makex picture darker, why is not keep the DMAX in SIM. profile? This linking is not clear.

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