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View Full Version : Calibrate and generate a profile with CPS and or CWS for Versant 2100 Press



Toffi69
07-21-2015, 06:50 AM
Hello there,

i started generating output profiles for various papers we use on the fiery rip EX 2100 which came with our Versant 2100 Press.

First i calibrated with 51 random patches and generated the profile with the eci 2002 chart with 1485 random patches.

After that i optimized the profile with two iteration steps.
The result was very good.

Prints where inside ISO Coated V2 tolerance except grey but i think this was due to measuring M0 instead of M1 and the used paper is slightly optical brightened.

But now i have got some problems concerning recalibration of our machine which we generally do every morning before start of production day.

There is no option in CWS to recalibrate with 51 random patches (only 34 random patches) and in CPS i can not find an option to recalibrate at all.

Can anyone help?

What is the right way to generate profiles which are accurate enough for our purposes?

A recalibration with 34 patches gave results that differ from the first results.
And a profile calibrated at the start with 34 patches was not as good as generated with the 51 patches.

Wondering what i can do?
What is the right and most accurate way?

Thx and best regards,

Thorsten

P.S.: I used GCR max and optimized profiles for proofing options.

StarDigital
07-21-2015, 07:14 AM
Through experience i learned some things about FCPS and Calibration. Having one paper to calibrate from seriously improves efficiency, as FCPS has a media white point ability when you open the base profile in CWS with the editor you can save a lot of time calibrating multiple papers with just one. (be careful though the calculations aren't perfect yet) Double check your base profile that you created a calibration set for by printing out various PANTONE using that profile, a handful of Lights medium and darks across the color spectrum and include browns and greys, compare these to your PANTONE bridge if you have one. When creating a profile you are asked to use light source setting, this grabs from the cieLAB color space. D50 didn't work for me but D55 did. This will adjust your colors in PANTONEs so if the colors printed and checked aren't close then change this setting to get them closer. Use quality control sheets to find issues with your colors the one i have compares CMY and greyscale together and it works great to see if i'm running high on any one color at any point in density, Xerox tends to run high in Magenta at midtones so i was able to adjust it from there. I was also able to see that i adjusted the Black setting wrong as it jumped from 90% to 100% when it should have be only 1% increase. Calibrating your printer is measuring density control in the 34 patches and this adjusts your calibration set accordingly. It is after this calibration that you should check your PANTONEs.

Hope this helps
Dan

Doyle
07-21-2015, 12:55 PM
Hello there,

i started generating output profiles for various papers we use on the fiery rip EX 2100 which came with our Versant 2100 Press.

First i calibrated with 51 random patches and generated the profile with the eci 2002 chart with 1485 random patches.

After that i optimized the profile with two iteration steps.
The result was very good.

Prints where inside ISO Coated V2 tolerance except grey but i think this was due to measuring M0 instead of M1 and the used paper is slightly optical brightened.

But now i have got some problems concerning recalibration of our machine which we generally do every morning before start of production day.

There is no option in CWS to recalibrate with 51 random patches (only 34 random patches) and in CPS i can not find an option to recalibrate at all.

Can anyone help?

What is the right way to generate profiles which are accurate enough for our purposes?

A recalibration with 34 patches gave results that differ from the first results.
And a profile calibrated at the start with 34 patches was not as good as generated with the 51 patches.

Wondering what i can do?
What is the right and most accurate way?

Thx and best regards,

Thorsten

P.S.: I used GCR max and optimized profiles for proofing options.

For me using 34 patches, setting up and doing the initial calibrations from ColorWise seems to work the best. Then either create your profile when you do the initial calibration or later with FCP or from the Add profile function from within CWS. Don't know why 51 patches is even selectable when you can never use it again for re-calibration. Fiery's dealing with the Versant 2100 leaves a lot to be desired, such as the ability to select warmup pages when calibrating and the half use of the Array.

Also what is the version of software on your Versant 2100? 100.11.54 is really stable color wise which can not be said for earlier versions.

I have actually had very good results creating the initial calibration and profile with the Array once I figured out a few workarounds. Don't know why Fiery treats the use of the Array in such a limited fashion.

Lou_P
07-21-2015, 01:40 PM
Hi Thorsten.

The 51 patches is only available on certain Fiery servers, but we give it to all users in Color Profiler Suite. I'm happy to hear it is giving you better resuults, and I'd like to understand how you have concluded that a) making a calibration and profile with 34 is not as good and b) recalibrating with 34 is not accurate. The second part especially its pretty hard to prove unless you use a workaround.

But these are just topics I am interested in, so feel free to reply with some answers or let me know if you want to take this off the forum in provate email or have a phoe call.

On to the answer. There are two choices you have today.

Method 1: a workaround that we hope to eliminate soon when we give you ability to recalibrate with the 51 patch target.

Launch CPS, Printer Profiler, select print patches / I want to start from the beginning. Select the Fiery. Give the session a name then click next. In the next screen check these options:

1. Use Existing Calibration Setting (pick the one you made with the 51 that is working well)

2. **DO not* check the box to skip re-calibration.

Click next and the calibration set will be recalibrated. Then when the prpfiling patches print, quit CPS. You can cancel the print of the profiling patches too in CPS to save yourself click charges.

Take a look at your calibration set. It will show updated at the time you did the workaround.

Method 2: Use the linker (not a workaround)

Since you optimized, you made a device link profile that is giving you the right results. The easiest way to "re-calibrate: is to go back to Device Link and choose "Optimize a device link" workflow. Click next and choose your Fiery. Chose "Edit a previously optimized Device Link and choose the device link you made when you optimized. iterate it a few more times (the 89 patch target should be fine for this or use more patches if you have time an a scanning spectro). Save the result. Now you have re-optimized the device link in multiple dimensions. It is actually a more precise way to re-calibrate.

Since you obvioudly have some ways to figure out that 24 is not working as well to use for base or re-calibration, use the same method to see how well the re-optimization works and put up a post to let us know how it worked.

~Lou




QUOTE=Toffi69;17734]Hello there,

i started generating output profiles for various papers we use on the fiery rip EX 2100 which came with our Versant 2100 Press.

First i calibrated with 51 random patches and generated the profile with the eci 2002 chart with 1485 random patches.

After that i optimized the profile with two iteration steps.
The result was very good.

Prints where inside ISO Coated V2 tolerance except grey but i think this was due to measuring M0 instead of M1 and the used paper is slightly optical brightened.

But now i have got some problems concerning recalibration of our machine which we generally do every morning before start of production day.

There is no option in CWS to recalibrate with 51 random patches (only 34 random patches) and in CPS i can not find an option to recalibrate at all.

Can anyone help?

What is the right way to generate profiles which are accurate enough for our purposes?

A recalibration with 34 patches gave results that differ from the first results.
And a profile calibrated at the start with 34 patches was not as good as generated with the 51 patches.

Wondering what i can do?
What is the right and most accurate way?

Thx and best regards,

Thorsten

P.S.: I used GCR max and optimized profiles for proofing options.[/QUOTE]

Toffi69
07-21-2015, 11:05 PM
Hi there,

thanks for your answers.

I will try the workaround and the method using the linker and will soon give you feedback, what the results are.

Best regards,

Thorsten

Kdw75
08-07-2015, 09:08 AM
Very helpful thread.