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Emgee
03-10-2011, 12:09 PM
Hi,

We've developed a new issue with our Fiery System 9. On prints where we have pure black solid fills I see a repeating "diamond-like" shape of white dots. I've tried various settings in Command Workstation without any luck in correcting the issue.

However, when I output a solid black image from our KM C6500 Pro from the engine itself (bypassing the fiery) the black is solid black with no dot pattern.

I've attached an image of what I see on a black solid fill.



Thanks for your time.

Emgee
03-14-2011, 12:28 PM
Any suggestions before our service provider downgrades us to System 8 R2?

Bruce_W
03-15-2011, 11:40 AM
Hi Emgee,

It's difficult to tell from the attachment but it doesn't look like a Fiery controller problem. I tried our our System 9.0 controller for this engine and don't see anything similar.

What sort of document are you printing to produce the black image, is it RGB or CMYK data?

Is your black image file printing 4 color black or black only?

If you process and hold the job, do the spots show up in Preview or EFI ImageViewer?

Has service already determined it's not a engine problem?

Best regards,
Bruce

Emgee
03-15-2011, 12:35 PM
Hi Emgee,

It's difficult to tell from the attachment but it doesn't look like a Fiery controller problem. I tried our our System 9.0 controller for this engine and don't see anything similar.


Thank you for getting back to me and for the initial testing you did.



What sort of document are you printing to produce the black image, is it RGB or CMYK data?


It's a PDF document in CMYK, no RGB. I've even rebuilt the PDF using rasterized versions rather than vector to make sure that wasn't the issue in some way.



Is your black image file printing 4 color black or black only?


I have it set to pure black and not rich black/process black. I ensured that it was pure black in the source file as well.



If you process and hold the job, do the spots show up in Preview or EFI ImageViewer?


Unfortunately the preview doesn't allow me to zoom in enough. The image attachment I included in my original post was zoomed in 600% or so. The dots I see are white little pinholes, quite small.



Has service already determined it's not a engine problem?


Yes they did. Drums, chargers and developer were replaced. Also, if we output a test print (solid black) print from the C6500 Pro's service screens it prints solid black, no white pinholes. The only time the pinholes appear is if it is sent by the Fiery. Even the Fiery's 34 patch calibration page I print shows the white pinholes on the black patches.

If there is any other information I can provide, let me know!

Thanks

Steve Mc
03-28-2011, 08:10 AM
Is this dot pattern on your solid black actually a yellow dot pattern produced as an anti-counterfeit measure by the engine manufacturer ?

The regularity of the pattern makes me think this and if this is the case it's impossible to bypass.

Emgee
03-28-2011, 08:33 AM
Is this dot pattern on your solid black actually a yellow dot pattern produced as an anti-counterfeit measure by the engine manufacturer ?

The regularity of the pattern makes me think this and if this is the case it's impossible to bypass.

Nope, not yellow dots. Definitely white dots. I'm familiar with the yellow dots of the anti-counterfeit measure. I've never seen this (white dots) before when printing solid black when we were running Fiery 8 Release 2; this 'showed' up with Fiery 9.

As mentioned, the white dots don't show themselves when a solid black print is made from the service menu of the copier (thereby bypassing the Fiery entirely) or making a pure black photocopy off the glass.

Thanks.

Hemlock
03-28-2011, 09:23 AM
If you were printing standard black instead of process black, would the printer still make its watermark in yellow or would it then be white? I'm inclined to think that this may be a security stamp embedded in the fiery. A counterfeit bill with one security code from hardware and a second from a rip device would make tracking down the criminal that much easier.


/tinfoil

Emgee
03-28-2011, 10:15 AM
If you were printing standard black instead of process black, would the printer still make its watermark in yellow or would it then be white? I'm inclined to think that this may be a security stamp embedded in the fiery. A counterfeit bill with one security code from hardware and a second from a rip device would make tracking down the criminal that much easier.


Not sure. As I mentioned, I never saw this occuring with prints when we were on Fiery 8 R2. We even see the white dots on the black patches on the calibration print through Colorwise calibration. Never saw that before either.

StressFreePrint
03-28-2011, 12:08 PM
Thank you for getting back to me and for the initial testing you did.



It's a PDF document in CMYK, no RGB. I've even rebuilt the PDF using rasterized versions rather than vector to make sure that wasn't the issue in some way.



I have it set to pure black and not rich black/process black. I ensured that it was pure black in the source file as well.



Unfortunately the preview doesn't allow me to zoom in enough. The image attachment I included in my original post was zoomed in 600% or so. The dots I see are white little pinholes, quite small.



Yes they did. Drums, chargers and developer were replaced. Also, if we output a test print (solid black) print from the C6500 Pro's service screens it prints solid black, no white pinholes. The only time the pinholes appear is if it is sent by the Fiery. Even the Fiery's 34 patch calibration page I print shows the white pinholes on the black patches.

If there is any other information I can provide, let me know!

Thanks

Hi Have you got an option on ure Fiery to process the job using an adobe PDF Print engine??? if you have it will be with in the job properties. If you have this feature try an re-process the job with this enabled!!!! I have found that it sorts alot of my problems out when im dealing with PDFs

Emgee
04-19-2011, 11:26 AM
Hi Have you got an option on ure Fiery to process the job using an adobe PDF Print engine??? if you have it will be with in the job properties. If you have this feature try an re-process the job with this enabled!!!! I have found that it sorts alot of my problems out when im dealing with PDFs

I use Command Workstation 5.2 to submit the jobs to the 6500.

I haven't tried printing from Acrobat using the Fiery PS driver though.

StressFreePrint
04-20-2011, 02:14 AM
Might be worth giving it a go it may help.

StressFreePrint
04-27-2011, 02:35 AM
I have attatched a jpeg showing you where the adobe pdf print engine is located

Hemlock
04-27-2011, 06:27 AM
What does the Adobe PDF Print Engine do for the job? Better colors? Quicker processing?

StressFreePrint
05-03-2011, 12:56 PM
the adobe pdf print engine actually processes the job in a totally different way it looks for embedded images that customer might off cut from various different work to create a document, with that it may cause some corruption for example we deal with customer PDF's on a daily basis and some of the more obvious errors we come across is that it puts grey boxes around logos or missing text or images so when using the adobe print engine it seems to correct corruption. as for colours an processing time, the colours are brought in from the device center ive found that if you have ure colour mode set to absolute colometric this is the closest match to colour representation that i have found, the processing time is a little longer depending on file size!

Hemlock
05-04-2011, 05:35 AM
Thanks for the tip, I'll have to remember to give that a try.

Emgee
05-25-2011, 08:13 AM
Following up on my thread.

I tried printing from Acrobat using the Postscript driver for my KM6500 and I got the same diamond-shaped white dot pattern on the background that I get when printing throught Command Workstation. I upgraded to the 5.3 release and same print results.

As for the Adobe Print Engine option, I don't have that available to me.


Thanks for the help and suggestions!

StressFreePrint
07-22-2011, 01:30 AM
Hi

Is this happening on different paper media????

Emgee
07-22-2011, 06:52 AM
@StressFreePrint:

Hi. Yes, it appears on different media (weights, coated/uncoated).

I always keep our Fiery up-to-date. All patches are installed. I calibrate the machine and the Fiery before starting any printing for the day as well.

Thanks.

StressFreePrint
07-25-2011, 12:12 AM
Mmmmmmm. Im trying to come up with a solution for you. lol.

If you like you could email me the file and i could try and run a copy on our DC-1000 and see if i get the same error???

If you would like me to do this please confirm via reply and I would be happy to help.

Thanks.

StressFreePrint

Emgee
07-26-2011, 09:25 AM
Thanks for the offer StressFreePrint!

However, it happens on any file with solid black areas. I've tried rebuilding the PDFs, flattening them, converting to TIFFs, etc.

Our techs have no idea why it's happening. But only from the Fiery. Test prints from the engine itself, set to pure black print solid black, no diamond white-dot pattern present.

StressFreePrint
07-27-2011, 12:34 AM
Thats not a problem!

It does sound like a Fiery problem! maybe worth trying to get a tech guy in from Fiery themselves???

NMEngineer
08-22-2013, 06:56 AM
Hi

Was this problem ever resolved? I have exactly the same problem but on a C6000 with an IC-413 so had a search on here and found this thread.

thanks