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View Full Version : Prints look washed out after upgrade to System 9



Emgee
02-16-2011, 09:41 AM
Hi All,

I realize that the answer to the following question is likely to be dependent on many factors, but hope to get some pointers at what to look at to help narrow down the cause.

Our Fiery was upgrade to System 9 (from System 8 v2) just over a month ago. What we're finding is that our prints are looking washed out (lighter, not as saturated, lacking punch) from the same file that was used to print when we were running System 8.

Our machine is well maintained by our tech and I calibrate the machine daily (sometimes between runs when the run length is large).

I'll start there, if there is more information I can provide please let me know!

Thank you.

Justin_dB
02-16-2011, 11:06 AM
What Engine Model is your Fiery server connected to?

Emgee
02-16-2011, 11:09 AM
Hi Justin,

We're running an Konica Minolta C6500 Pro.

I've worked through the quality adjustments on the unit as well. We also just had a full PM done on the machine - new drums, chargers, developer, belt, the works. No improvement.


Thanks!

Justin_dB
02-16-2011, 02:04 PM
Thank you for your reply.

Can you provide the following information about your workflow:
What workflow are you using to submit jobs to the Fiery Server? (Direct import, Printing through Fiery print driver etc.)
What file type are you using? (EPS, PS, PDF, etc.)
With what data type are you seeing this result on (RGB, CMYK, Spot)

Can you please save to file and send privately the results from your printer setup summary. You can locate this in Command Workstation 5.2 under Device Center -> General -> Setup Summary -> Save As...)

If you do not already have Command Workstation 5.2, this is avaliable for free on the web at:
<http://w3.efi.com/en/Fiery/Products/CWS5/Download>

Thank you
Justin

Emgee
02-16-2011, 02:10 PM
Hi Justin,

I use EFI Command Workstation 5.2 to submit jobs to the KMC6500. I submit PDF files only. The PDF files are under our control and have all been created consistently in the same manner. We print CMYK only (no RGB or Spot).

PDFs are created in Adobe InDesign (with assets from Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator) and always in CMYK.

I'll send you the information your requested via PM shortly.

Spencer Elliott
02-17-2011, 03:10 AM
Perhaps you used to use a different colour profile on your old machine?

Justin_dB
02-18-2011, 11:11 AM
There are three changes with this upgrade that you will want to consider when evaluating CMYK PDF output.

1. CMYK source profile updates
Sys9 includes updated CMYK source profiles. For example - GRACoL 2006 Coated 1 and ISO Coated FOGRA39L. Legacy CMYK source profiles can be found on the user DVD

2. CMYK Embedded Profile handling
Sys9 allows the user to override CMYK embedded source profiles with the job specified CMYK source profile. To honor the embedded profile use option CMYK Source = "None". Alternatively, you can upload your desired CMYK source profile to the Fiery Server, and set it as your job CMYK source profile for all CMYK data.

3. Output Profile updates
v1 profiles were updated with v3 profiles. You may wish to try the legacy profiles on your updated system which you will find on the new user DVD

To upload profiles to the Fiery Server with Command Workstation 5.2, open Device Center -> Resources -> Profiles.

I hope this helps

Thank you
Justin

Emgee
02-23-2011, 09:01 AM
Hi Justin_dB and Spencer,

The profiles are different with System 9. I've tried them all to try and find the closest match but no luck.

Justin_dB, we did not get the user CD when our RIP was upgraded. I'll see if my tech has the disc so I can grab the legacy profiles. If not, are these available anywhere on EFIs website? I looked but didn't come across anything.

Thanks.

Emgee
02-24-2011, 11:00 AM
@Justin_dB:

Our tech came in today and we checked the User Software CD but did not find any legacy profiles on it. We found the ICC files that install with System 9, but not the old profiles.

Lou_P
02-24-2011, 12:13 PM
The older system used the profile "ISO Coated" for CMYK source, correct?

Please confirm that you have tried using that same CMYK simulation profile and the prints are washed out. Turn off "Use Embedded Profiles" for this test if you have it enabled.

If prints are still washed out with the same sim profile as was used on the older Fiery then please look at the Output profile in color expert settings. Is is a V1 or a V3 profile?

Chances are you have V3 on the newer system and if you do not have the V1's to compare to we can supply them.

~Lou

Emgee
02-24-2011, 12:23 PM
The older system used the profile "ISO Coated" for CMYK source, correct?

Please confirm that you have tried using that same CMYK simulation profile and the prints are washed out. Turn off "Use Embedded Profiles" for this test if you have it enabled.

If prints are still washed out with the same sim profile as was used on the older Fiery then please look at the Output profile in color expert settings. Is is a V1 or a V3 profile?

Chances are you have V3 on the newer system and if you do not have the V1's to compare to we can supply them.

~Lou

Hi Lou, thanks for the reply.

I used an ISO Coated and a SWOP on our System 8 install. We were on version 2 of System 8 so had the V3 profile. We were using that because the V1s apparently gave us a magenta tinge to blues I believe.

I am using V3 currently for output profile. I've also tried all the CMYK simulation profiles loaded with System 9 and they all looked washed out.

I create the PDFs with no profiles embedded, no conversion. I've been doing it that way since we got the C6500 and Fiery 2.5 years ago. I haven't changed our workflow on the creation side of things.

On the discs my tech had we could not located any of the legacy ICC profiles, just the ones loaded with System 9.

Thank you.

Scott_W
02-24-2011, 01:13 PM
V3.0 (System 9) shipped with v3 output profiles. Previous versions of this Fiery shipped with v1 output profiles.

Your KM dealer should be able to provide you with the v1 ouput profile installer patch that is compatible with your v3.0 System 9 Fiery.

The patch ID is 1-15CO5P. They can find out where to get this patch for you.

Hopefully this will resolve your color issues.

Emgee
02-25-2011, 08:18 AM
Justin_dB, Lou_P, Scott_W:

We found the V1 legacy output profiles on the disc (short story, we had the wrong disc, ugh). Anyways, loaded them onto the fiery as Justin_dB described, calibrated and set the job properties to use the V1 and the print is about 90% or so there. The rest of the difference can be accounted for by environment (consumable wear/tear, room environment changes).

From here I can likely tweak the file to bring it even closer.

Thanks all for your help!

Lou_P
02-25-2011, 01:13 PM
Great.

No need to try the other procedure then.

~Lou