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View Full Version : Help configuring color when "gloss" mode is on.



regezm3
10-06-2009, 01:50 PM
I have a Konica 8050 and I am having trouble printing onto heavy weight glossy material. When my machine is selected to Coated ***** at the highest grams per sq, the print looks great, but toner peels off the page after printing more than 10 copies. The "gloss" function makes the toner stick to the ***** perfectly everytime, however the color is off. (wayy to much magenta). How do I calibrate my machine (or the RIP?) on this "glossy" setting? I do not have spectrophotometer (which I was told is one solution.) I have printed many jobs over the past year on this glossy setting just fine, but all of a sudden I am having problems. Please help! I thank you in advance for taking the time to help me.

k_graham
10-07-2009, 01:04 AM
I have a Konica 8050 and I am having trouble printing onto heavy weight glossy material. When my machine is selected to Coated ***** at the highest grams per sq, the print looks great, but toner peels off the page after printing more than 10 copies. The "gloss" function makes the toner stick to the ***** perfectly everytime, however the color is off. (wayy to much magenta). How do I calibrate my machine (or the RIP?) on this "glossy" setting? I do not have spectrophotometer (which I was told is one solution.) I have printed many jobs over the past year on this glossy setting just fine, but all of a sudden I am having problems. Please help! I thank you in advance for taking the time to help me.

What weight and what material, is it within Machine specs, ideally is it laser rated, if not can you use one that is such as Xerox 12 point Supreme or Futura 100# Gloss assuming that is within the Grams per Meter and does that have a problem? If it has they should adjust fuser heat or replace rollers to fix.

What happens if you use the heaviest non coated setting?

Assuming its like the 500 it should have a method of doing a Gradation adjust - make sure toner refresh is done as well. On the 500 this item can apparently be turned off in software switches so its only visible to service man so if thats the case on the 8050 have them make if visible, my opinion is the Gradation adjust must be done before the Fiery Calibration - You might also try turning copier switch off and on just before calibration to have it do its initial setup, & EFIs actually recommended running the calibration after copier has gone through initial morning warm up with some copies already ran.

Also is your humidity between 20 and 50%, keeping paper wrapped until needed. Here fall is upon us and its time to humidify, failure to do so can show blind spots and arcing in Gradation adjusts and Coronas I think are adjusted for the drier weather, but yours is a fuser heat problem other than perhaps the color change issue.

One item of interest - have techs checked the voltage, meaning could you be experiencing a drop. I'm curious if the manufacturer has ever checked the importance of single phase power - 240 volts standard versus 3 phase power which runs single phase at 208 volts. Our Xerox 240, 250 seems to run fine on the 208 power but maybe others don't. I did hear of 1 company claiming the service tech found a uneven voltage leg at their site causing problems with their brand machine.

Is copier serviced by Konica or dealer?

Are they trying to sell you a new copier telling you its old and thus delaying service thinking you are about to put a new unit in.

Are the filters dirty or worse - missing?

Do technicians keep inside of machine spotless as they should or show you so you could?

Are they replacing Coronas as they should within manufacturers recommendations, or worse - restringing?

If you are not going the monthly recommended volume between service ask for a print out of service calls and then get them to show you the Manufacturers replacement recommendations from service manual. Particularly Coronas, and drums.

We had the above issues on a black and white machine with parts overdue to about 2 times past due on wiper blade and Coronas from a very large dealer. In spite of that we lost the Canadian small claims court case as the judge ruled with them that running parts past manufacturers recommendations was acceptable. Our current small dealer took over a equivalent but newer machine from them when we disagreed and is replacing parts as per manufacturers recommendations and reliablility is about 25 times better. About 250,000 copies between calls versus under 10,000 at 2,000,000 copies. Imagine your tax dollars going to service machines at 4% of what someone else can do by servicing to manufacturers recommendations. Sillier still the large dealer could use 75% less technicians and use the savings to more than pay for parts.

On color machine we switched to Xerox to have manufacturer support and the fact that Drums, Coronas and Fusers are user replaceable.

I'll believe the Spectrophotometer is the solution the day I see servicemen set the copier with the Spectrophotometer - I recommend keeping a wedding photo type picture confirming good copier glass printing of light shades of gray on a white dress, this should provide a good copy from when the machine was performing new - its up to service to match that every time once thats done you can then do a Fiery calibration on a fully patched machine. I feel a machine must make proper color copies off the glass before its feasible to do the Fiery calibration - also please note I suggest non UV brightened papers in the 90 brightness area to do the Gradation & calibration, even if actually running whiter papers.

Of course Fiery could greatly simplify the fully patched machine by timely releases of cloned downloadable images with all patches properly applied, complete with checksum test during install verifying image downloaded is identical.

Was any of this helpful?

Ken

regezm3
10-08-2009, 07:49 AM
Ken,

Thank you so much for your time in responding to my question, it is greatly appreciated. The paper ***** that I am running is 10pt Carolina Gloss C2S. I have been running it successfully for about a year and a half with no issues with multiple jobs per week. (I believe it to be out of spec) Im motivated to have this problem solved, as I have many customers who rely on me to print on this *****. I am not too savy with all of the technical components of my machine, but I'm trying my best to learn. Even if I try a different ***** or lighter weight within spec as you suggested (while on gloss mode), the machine still prints with heavy magenta saturation, even using heaviest setting non-coated setting like you suggested. From my limited knowledge, the gloss mode is the only way to slow the prints coming out of the machine to ensure proper toner adhesion to the paper. yes?

I will try playing with the gradation adjust mode and I am going to forward this e-mail to my service guy and see if he gets any ideas from it. He's actually a friend of the family so I'm not worried about him trying to refuse service in hopes that I will buy a new machine.

I will repost after I speak with him about the issue once again. Thank you so much for your time Ken!!!

Nuallfava
10-09-2009, 04:38 AM
another color problem? try your adobe gamma - the no cost calibration software available on-call from your start menu.

or if you have a friend with a calibration software/hardware like the spider let him do the calibration for a color match output.

note: different printing media - different color absorption and color reflection.

k_graham
10-09-2009, 08:11 AM
Ken,

Thank you so much for your time in responding to my question, it is greatly appreciated. The paper ***** that I am running is 10pt Carolina Gloss C2S. I have been running it successfully for about a year and a half with no issues with multiple jobs per week. (I believe it to be out of spec) Im motivated to have this problem solved, as I have many customers who rely on me to print on this *****. I am not too savy with all of the technical components of my machine, but I'm trying my best to learn. Even if I try a different ***** or lighter weight within spec as you suggested (while on gloss mode), the machine still prints with heavy magenta saturation, even using heaviest setting non-coated setting like you suggested. From my limited knowledge, the gloss mode is the only way to slow the prints coming out of the machine to ensure proper toner adhesion to the paper. yes?

I will try playing with the gradation adjust mode and I am going to forward this e-mail to my service guy and see if he gets any ideas from it. He's actually a friend of the family so I'm not worried about him trying to refuse service in hopes that I will buy a new machine.

I will repost after I speak with him about the issue once again. Thank you so much for your time Ken!!!

It sounds like something has changed, the question is what?

Of Importance is that you can show the problem of color change on something -in spec- , it sounds like you should be able to. Of equal importance is the change occuring on copies with no RIP involvement?

Ideally add your machine and RIP specs to your signature for here.

Mention all Fiery service patches applied. Ideally you have a printout from before the problem - if the color issue appeared after a patch was applied then the issue could be there. Unfortunately it seems Fierys Windows security patches are lumped in with actual patches making for a huge list - Xerox provides the patches available on their website, It seems other than security patches must be manually applied. It seems some manufacturers don't post the patches so clients don't know a solution exists, most times even their own techs don't know as there is too much out there- I think Fiery would do well to provide the lists in their website and also on the machine separate security patches from regular patches.

Also - on the later 500 - a Print driver replacement for workstations was included with a replacement patch disk , this was buried in a zipped file inside another file, the techs got along with the updates. - I know we had 3 workstations and the tech never mentioned it to us so even if he did it to the computer he was applying the patches from it was not upgraded on the other 2, most likely it was never applied to the 1st computer either - by the time we found out about it the machine was disconnected and a lawsuit under way. Anyway - include the Postscript print driver information from a workstation as well. Go to Printer Properties - About.

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Gradation adjust - done so copier is doing proper Gradations as a copier but Fiery also needs it so its calibrated to a properly functioning copier. Be cautious of scanning high white papers as part of the calibration process. I think the UV whiteners confuse the calibration process - my thought is its better to use papes in about 90 whiteness range - not 95 - 100.

I think Fiery mentioned in another thread about turning off and on Fiery before Gradation adjust so its done its self adjusting, so I suggest doing this before a Gradation adjust.

Apply Toner refresh and Gradation adjust - does this correct it on copies done off the glass? The 500 has toner refresh but apparently it can be hidden in software as a tech only item so it may be an item you could ask to have turned on, ask your tech for the 8050).

Gradation adjusts must be done with clean print outs. - so if some of that peeled toner comes out on one reprint. If prints suffer voids or static discharge marks have technician adjust coronas - Humidifiers in building help, are they on and working and whats Humidity in building.
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When actually doing the EFI RIP calibration after above again I suggest low 90 brightness - you notice EFI sells a Spectro for UV filtering but not at the copier gradation adjust stage. Use the same 90 area materials for EFI rip calibration unless you have a Spectro for UV filtering.

There is normally a facility in EFI calibration to specify for calibrating various cards individually. Also a facility to reset to factory default.
Do us a favour - reset to factory default - but don't do further calibration.

Make a print on gloss card - did that fix or improve it?
In theory if copier gradation and settings were as per the one Fiery did the factory default settings on it would be perfect.

Now do a EFI calibration first on paper for ALL - then check a print on gloss card - any better of just better on paper?

Now do a EFI calibration but instead of all, do one for each setting it allows. Did that fix it - On Xerox - I've seen a issue where it refuses to print out a copy for scanning if selecting other than paper - the only solution for us in that case was different software disks from Fiery provided by Xerox and reloading the RIP. Something that would not happen if a Checksum verification was part of the disk creation process. Please post if you have this problem..

If an external RIP that you can put a CD in I recommend using www.clonezilla.org free cloning software to back up your properly functioning RIP to external drive.

Keep and date good samples when machine is working well. Make tech put it back that way when its not. If you can't get a decent copy get one from a competitor machine then require your machine prints equal to the other machine as well. The problem is you must have a properly functioning copier providing perfect copy before adjusting the Fiery.



Ken